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Jon Leary
Guest
I think Mr. Mauser had this extractor thing figured out over 100 yrs ago. Jon
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Dennis Sorensen
Guest
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Jon Leary
Guest
How is it perfected if it leaves some of the case unsupported? In a mauser everything above the extractor groove is supported. Jon
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Dennis Sorensen
Guest
The '3 rings of steel' advertisement Remington first came out with is not hype... it is a statement of fact... the 700 is the strongest, safest 2 locking lug bolt action ever produced. If I ever have a catastrophic case failure, there in no other action I would prefer to have it with.
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Jon Leary
Guest
That third "ring of steel" isn't very thick and protrudes into the chamber. I think it was just cheaper to manufacture and they came up with "three rings of steel" for adverstising. JMHO, Jon
Pete Wass
Well-known member
I once saw one come out
A fellow shooter and Gunsmith of some note had one come out ; didn't hurt nothing but it came out all the same. He has seated a primer backwards - - - - . He didn't find the spring, I think it was' that day but it weren't the fault of the extractor that made it come a-loose.
I think , remembering back, for those of us who had the older Remington Extractors fail in a match the reason for the Sako was obvious.
A fellow shooter and Gunsmith of some note had one come out ; didn't hurt nothing but it came out all the same. He has seated a primer backwards - - - - . He didn't find the spring, I think it was' that day but it weren't the fault of the extractor that made it come a-loose.
I think , remembering back, for those of us who had the older Remington Extractors fail in a match the reason for the Sako was obvious.
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John Kielly
Shari's fan club
But wouldn't you agree that the degree of exposure of of the case's base compared to many other action styles predisposes the Remington to more catastrophic case failures?
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NesikaChad
Guest
Well the three rings of steel didn't do this guy any favors. . .
jackie schmidt
New member
The Three Rings Of Steel
I think some of you are doing a diservice to Remington. The "three rings of steel" is not an advertising gimmic. It works as designed.
I agree with Dennis. The Remington design, (unaltered), is the safest turn bolt Rifle manufactured in terms of containing shrapnel in the event of a catastraphic case failure.
Perhaps many are ignorant as to just how the system works.......jackie
I think some of you are doing a diservice to Remington. The "three rings of steel" is not an advertising gimmic. It works as designed.
I agree with Dennis. The Remington design, (unaltered), is the safest turn bolt Rifle manufactured in terms of containing shrapnel in the event of a catastraphic case failure.
Perhaps many are ignorant as to just how the system works.......jackie
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Dennis Sorensen
Guest
Not at all... typically a case hangs out of the chamber .150"... The heavy web of the case ends farther up the body...
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Dennis Sorensen
Guest
No it did not... because someone installed a Sako style extractor... about the worst thing one can do to completely compromise what was the safest system in the world...
..and I am still pondering about how a primer seated backwards (Pete's post # 26) even got the case ignited let alone cause a blow up...
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Jon Leary
Guest
The greatest flattery is to be copied I don;t see any one copying the "Three Rings Of Steel". But the best policy is not to blow up your cases in the first place. Jon
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Dennis Sorensen
Guest
It is a buyers choice... bolts are offered with the Remington extractor too.
Are the Remington bolts safe with a Sako extractor? It is simple ... if you have a catastrophic case failure they are not. I guess it has to be said again... in a two lug bolt action there is no system as strong and safe as the original, unaltered 700.
Make your decision with knowledge and both eyes open.
Not all ideas/inventions can be copied. Manufacturers have legal rights. I am sure if one manufacturer copied another there would be lawsuits.
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nhkuehl
Guest
Sako extractor in a Remington 700
I've been following this with interest because I opened up the bolt face on a RH Remington 700 SA from .378 (.223 Rem) to .473 (6mm BR) and installed a Sako extractor and have been shooting it for some time. I got it out and looked at how things line up and made some measurements. If you look in the gas port on the receiver ring with the bolt closed you can't see the extractor. The .150" of bolt nose and the tip of the extractor are in the recess of the barrel and supported and all clearances are less than .010". When the bolt is closed and you look down the right raceway you can see part of the extractor exposed.
I think the backwards primer blowing out the extractor can be explained by the fact that the pivot hole for the extractor is drilled through the bolt into the firing pin recess and any gas escaping through the firing pin hole would push straight out on the pivot which is on the end not supported by the barrel recess or receiver ring. The way things line up, tolerances, and being a RH shooter (wearing safety glasses), and experienced reloader I'm not concerned about this set up being unsafe for me. I probably won't install another Sako extractor in the rest of my Rem 700 bolts though, but then I don't plan on opening up any more bolt faces either and I'm buying Savages now. nhk
I've been following this with interest because I opened up the bolt face on a RH Remington 700 SA from .378 (.223 Rem) to .473 (6mm BR) and installed a Sako extractor and have been shooting it for some time. I got it out and looked at how things line up and made some measurements. If you look in the gas port on the receiver ring with the bolt closed you can't see the extractor. The .150" of bolt nose and the tip of the extractor are in the recess of the barrel and supported and all clearances are less than .010". When the bolt is closed and you look down the right raceway you can see part of the extractor exposed.
I think the backwards primer blowing out the extractor can be explained by the fact that the pivot hole for the extractor is drilled through the bolt into the firing pin recess and any gas escaping through the firing pin hole would push straight out on the pivot which is on the end not supported by the barrel recess or receiver ring. The way things line up, tolerances, and being a RH shooter (wearing safety glasses), and experienced reloader I'm not concerned about this set up being unsafe for me. I probably won't install another Sako extractor in the rest of my Rem 700 bolts though, but then I don't plan on opening up any more bolt faces either and I'm buying Savages now. nhk
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Jay Idaho
Guest
I have removed the barrels on several stock 700s that had been fired with gross overloads. Barrel removal was a better option than pounding on the bolt handle. The brass case often expands into the bolt head, sometimes filling it pretty well and nearly welding itself to the bolt.
The factory 700 bolt head system is an elegant design.
The best thing to do with a bolt that has been converted to a Sako style extractor is to cut the bolt head off and install a Savage floating bolt head with the sliding gate extractor.
Jay, Idaho
The factory 700 bolt head system is an elegant design.
The best thing to do with a bolt that has been converted to a Sako style extractor is to cut the bolt head off and install a Savage floating bolt head with the sliding gate extractor.
Jay, Idaho
Gents,
The "three rings of steel" was explained to me thusly:
The bolt nose, which sits inside the counterbore of the barrel, is designed that way so as it's OD will obturate into the counterbores ID in the event of catostrophic overload/case failure. This obturation would prevent gasses, debris, etc. from coming back down the raceways and into the face of the shooter. True or not...I don't know. But it sounds entirely reasonable to me.
Mike Walker, the man who designed the 700, is one smart fella. If I'm not mistaken, he also came up with button rifling...or at least was one of the pioneers. Knowing what I do about the man, I have a hard time buying that the "three rings of steel" was a marketing gimmick thought up some stuffed suit in the marketing department. I think it is more likely exactly what the brilliant Walker had in mind when he designed the 700.
Justin
The "three rings of steel" was explained to me thusly:
The bolt nose, which sits inside the counterbore of the barrel, is designed that way so as it's OD will obturate into the counterbores ID in the event of catostrophic overload/case failure. This obturation would prevent gasses, debris, etc. from coming back down the raceways and into the face of the shooter. True or not...I don't know. But it sounds entirely reasonable to me.
Mike Walker, the man who designed the 700, is one smart fella. If I'm not mistaken, he also came up with button rifling...or at least was one of the pioneers. Knowing what I do about the man, I have a hard time buying that the "three rings of steel" was a marketing gimmick thought up some stuffed suit in the marketing department. I think it is more likely exactly what the brilliant Walker had in mind when he designed the 700.
Justin
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NesikaChad
Guest
I'd like to offer a "high school" perspective on this. Since I've never endured a college education, that's all you get from me.
Gas under pressure takes the path of least resistance. When things work right in a gun that path is down the barrel. When something goes wrong it would seem plausible to me that they will escape from three primary locations:
1. The muzzle when the bullet finally leaves the barrel.
2. The firing pin hole to the gas checks/shroud.
3. The gap between the breech and the bolt. (regardless of how its configured.)
Experience tells me I'm correct on this.
That being said, 3 rings, 5 rings, or no rings. Gas is coming back as its a path of least resistance and one of only 3 possible escape routes. Your face is less than a foot from the thing. How many here will stick their face within a foot of a little pissant firecracker as it goes pop?
Lessons:
1. Wear some damn eye protection
2. Wear some damn eye protection
3. Wear some damn eye protection
Gas under pressure takes the path of least resistance. When things work right in a gun that path is down the barrel. When something goes wrong it would seem plausible to me that they will escape from three primary locations:
1. The muzzle when the bullet finally leaves the barrel.
2. The firing pin hole to the gas checks/shroud.
3. The gap between the breech and the bolt. (regardless of how its configured.)
Experience tells me I'm correct on this.
That being said, 3 rings, 5 rings, or no rings. Gas is coming back as its a path of least resistance and one of only 3 possible escape routes. Your face is less than a foot from the thing. How many here will stick their face within a foot of a little pissant firecracker as it goes pop?
Lessons:
1. Wear some damn eye protection
2. Wear some damn eye protection
3. Wear some damn eye protection
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chris k
Guest
What ever choice in extractors ,guns etc. there is a reason that safety gear is promoted .
Years ago I had a you man (18 ish ) bring me his Rem 700 7 mag to be checked over . He had fired a 270 round in his 7 mag.His problem was not his rifle it was the fact that he has apiece of brass embedded in his right eye ,the doc told him it could be removed but had a 50/50 chance of losing his eye . The young man told me he was going to leave it in . If he had been wearing safety glasses he would have had no physical damage only emotional as he would have watched the rifle smoke where it is not supposed to smoke and said " what the hell happened "
Chris
Years ago I had a you man (18 ish ) bring me his Rem 700 7 mag to be checked over . He had fired a 270 round in his 7 mag.His problem was not his rifle it was the fact that he has apiece of brass embedded in his right eye ,the doc told him it could be removed but had a 50/50 chance of losing his eye . The young man told me he was going to leave it in . If he had been wearing safety glasses he would have had no physical damage only emotional as he would have watched the rifle smoke where it is not supposed to smoke and said " what the hell happened "
Chris