Sako + Remmy ='s Be careful!

N

NesikaChad

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There's been threads here and there about this subject.

A new client just left my shop that had a gun "sneeze" on him recently. The sako extractor is nowhere to be found. (no, I did not install it) He's ok, but it did involve an eye surgery to get the brass out of the BACK of his eye!:eek:

As a policy I won't install one (sako) on a Remington for reasons well understood and previously mentioned.

Just a reminder. BE CAREFUL and WEAR YOUR EYE PROTECTION!!:cool::cool:
 
Sako, on Rem Bolt, its nothing i want to use, George.
 
I´ve always wondered, whats the difference between all the custom actions featuring as sako style extractor, and a remington bolt converted to a sako claw style? There are numerous custom actions that have sako extractors, and still you read all this talk about the extreme danger when they are installed in a remmy bolt.

What have I missed? Whats the big difference between a custom, and a remington bolt? Or is it mostly a matter of custom action owners having a better reloading dicipline(Not blowing case heads as often, and also the huge amount of converted remmy actions versus custom actions)?

I´m not trying to pick a fight, just looki´n for some answers.

Regards,
Peter Ericson
 
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Peter, You have asked an excellent question. There have been many posts that condemn a Sako in a Remington, but as you state, there are many custom actions using the same extractor, in the same two lug configuration action. Since most customs use a coned breach, I can't see where that makes any difference. The location of the ejector can't make a difference either.

So where is the "it's OK in a custom, but not in a Remington"?
 
Explaining it quickly, the Remmington 700 bolt with its un-modified counterbore has the best part of 0.060" more case head protrusion than the Sako extractor needs. The Remmington design in its original form has excellent gas handling at the breech, where it is needed, but there was no point in wearing a belt and braces, so gas handling at the rear of the receiver did not receive much design attention (many other actions neglect this area too, but few others have as much case head protrusion as the Rem 700).

There is much more extensive discussion here:http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/1267694-post14.html

-allong with more examples of extractors going flying, and an example of a tug-a-war between a standard and a Sako extractored 700. The standard 700 extractor won;)
 
Sako Extractor?

One important difference that may come into play is the amount of exposed case at the rear of the chamber. Typical Remington factory bolt nose is .150 longer than the bolt face and with average clearance about .160 of the back of the case is exposed or unsupported. Most custom actions using SAKO extractors keep the length of the bolt nose to about .100, so the case can have about .050 less exposed. Properly done SAKO conversions have the bolt nose shortened to gain the same advantage. Some PPC brass is substantially thinner at the web and the extra support probably helps to prevent case failures. This is one reason that many smiths used SAKO extractors when converting Remys to PPC.

I have seen poorly done conversions that left the bolt nose at full length, although none were chambered in PPC. It has been reported that almost all cases of SAKO extractors coming out with case failures are with .223 boltface cartridges. The smaller case allows more room for the extractor to turn around and blow out into the lug raceway.

So the worst case scenario is a right hand action chambered in a .223 varient being shot left handed.
Case failures are not pretty in any rifle, and SAKO conversions may increase the risk of injury. Still this type of extractor is used in so many custom actions it seems to be de rigueur.
Safety glasses are really a good idea and most comercial ranges mandate their use for liability protection. I see more benchrest shooters shooting unprotected than you might expect.

Scott Roeder
 
If someone took a Remington, installed a Sako extractor and didn't change the nose dimensions accordingly on fitting a barrel, then yes, there is probably more case left unsupported than it should be. I've seen some not so good Sako's installed too.

Still, in over 30 years of shooting and reloading, I've never blown a case apart. Maybe I should knock on wood.
 
Eric's sleeved remington 700 has a Beeson bolt, the Extractor is similar to the one used in Kelbly's panda, only it is not on a cone, the Beeson lugs are flat on the front of the bolt, and the extractor is there. Also the barrel then has no counter bore for the "3 rings of Steel". It looks like a good design, the extractor, if ever there was a problem is trapped in front of the lugs, not in the lug ways like a sako would be.

Paul
 
yes, T slot extractors are great-till you have to make one of the little bastages from scratch to fit a "frankengun."

I finally got the bugger to work right.
 
I'm impressed with your decision Chad, many gunsmiths do whatever the customer will pay for. How was the job done the first time, can you show us pics? Do you think the M16 extractor would have stayed put in this scenario? Hope your customer's eye is going to be OK.
 
I don't have any photos as he took everything home. I have a couple barreled actions to put together for him.

The case split at the web. There's brass that's soldered itself to lots of parts, the bolt body, receiver, etc.

I'd installed one of my fire control units in his bolt a few months back and he feels this is what saved his eye from further damage. The shrouds I made are enclosed and I tried as best as I could to shield the rear bridge as much as possible.

It made one hell of a mess of things, there's scorch marks on the bolt face, firing pin, etc.

He's fortunate to be ok now.
 
Can I just put in my two cents on eye protection. I came by my online name honestly and only having one peeper is a pain in the pooper. It's also a pain to get one fixed, I walked around with a damaged eye for a long time before they finally took it out.

Just put the glasses on, please just do it.
 
Sako's and Remingtons

I have first hand knowledge of a shooter who still has the remains of a Sako in his brain. It happenned when he blew a case in a modified 700.........jackie
 
Used to shoot with a guy who had a primer blow in an old Sako that blew primer pieces and hot gas into his right eye. He now shoots left handed. If he saw ANYONE shooting without eye protection they got a sermon, and if they disputed him it could turn into a real come to Jesus meeting.

A little off the topic, but wearing glasses is as important as ear protection.
 
Sako extractor in Remington

So here's a real obvious question. Why do people insist on installing a Sako extractor on a Remington bolt?

Lou Baccino
 
chino69 said:
So here's a real obvious question. Why do people insist on installing a Sako extractor on a Remington bolt?

Lou Baccino
Click to expand...

I think it is a carry over from years ago when the PPC case was first used and the 700 bolt needed to be altered for it.

My thoughts have always been why was only part of the Sako extractor system used? Why wasn't the Sako "guide rail" installed as well. That "guide rail" Sako uses addresses the problem of the extractor blowing out on 2 lug actions...it is really there not as a bolt guide but as a deflector. As shown in this picture it stopped the extractor from exiting down the bolt towards the shooter. It did it's job.

243blowupaction-0.jpg
 
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Sako extractor

Dennis Sorensen said:
I think it is a carry over from years ago when the PPC case was first used and the 700 bolt needed to be altered for it.

My thoughts have always been why was only part of the Sako extractor system used? Why wasn't the Sako "guide rail" installed as well. That "guide rail" Sako uses addresses the problem of the extractor blowing out on 2 lug actions...it is really there not as a bolt guide but as a deflector. As shown in this picture it stopped the extractor from exiting down the bolt towards the shooter. It did it's job.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Dennis.

Lou Baccino
 
Dennis Sorensen said:
I think it is a carry over from years ago when the PPC case was first used and the 700 bolt needed to be altered for it.

My thoughts have always been why was only part of the Sako extractor system used? Why wasn't the Sako "guide rail" installed as well. That "guide rail" Sako uses addresses the problem of the extractor blowing out on 2 lug actions...it is really there not as a bolt guide but as a deflector. As shown in this picture it stopped the extractor from exiting down the bolt towards the shooter. It did it's job.

243blowupaction-0.jpg
Click to expand...

Dennis, I think a groove similar to a Mauser or Ruger 77 bolt with the claw extractor would have to be machined into the bolt body to accomodate the guide rail and I don't know if the Rem. bolt would accept this groove. Sure would be worth investigation though.
I remember seeing a McMillan military action with this rail but Gale told me it was to keep foreign matter out of the raceway as Marine sniper rifles are subjected to some pretty harsh conditions.
Gene
 
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