Rifles/Cartridge Availability and Combinations

C

ColColt

Guest
Another noob to contend with here.;) I've been in the various shooting sports since 1969 and currently most active in BPCR Shooting. One Shiloh Sharps in 40-70 Sharps Straight, a Browning BPCR in 45-70 and a C. Sharps Hartford in 38-55. I've gotten interested in Bench Rest shooting recently and know very little about what's out there today. Back when I first got interested in this the .222 was king of the hill and an accurate cartridge it was...especially in the Remington 700-or 40X I think it was called then.

Having updated my reloading manuals in Speer and Hornady recently I noticed quite a few cartridges I'd never heard of before. The 6PPC was one of them. Can you currently buy rifles for that caliber or is it necessary to have one custom made? I know guys back in the 70's who had custom actions, bedding, Hart barrels or Douglas, etc but you could get factory rifles for the .222 then. Today, I'm not sure what's available and haven't had a lot of luck Googling for info. What calibers/rifles would be good to start with for someone in the "autumn" of their years?

Thanks
 
You've got a lot of reading to do to get up to date but to cut to the chase, if you want a truly accurate setup then your absolute best (and cheapest) route is to buy a new or used 6PPC from the want ads here at this site, 'The List' over at Shooter's Corner, a BR gunbuilder such as Borden's Accuracy or the like. When you find a rifle listed post a link here to have it vetted and you can soon have a real BR rifle.


YOU CANNOT buy an off the shelf factory 6PPC.


YOU CANNOT buy anything from any name brand rifle manufacturer that's competitive, even if it says 6BR or 6PPC in the title :)


Folks will tell you otherwise.


They ARE NOT competitors nor are they owners of truly accurate rifles.


opinionby








al
 
short range benchrest

Col. -

Howdy !

If you want to bias the equation so that even your initial foray's into benchrest feature reasonable " equipment ".

Before $$$, you might try connecting w/ an established BR shooter, operating a 6PPC; who might be willing to share his gun during a local shoot.
Or perahps even, let you operate a second gun that he has. You could at least get some notion, of what " modern" short-range benchrest shooting involves.
Not just the rifle, the scopes, the Fwd rest, the Rear bag et al.

These benchrest shooters are reknown for freindliness, and honest generosity. Much of the fun at these shoots, is after all... the people !

If... afterward you want to progess to $$$ of your own gun, you might consider getting a gently " pre-owned ", from one of your newest acquaintances. Ideally, shoot the gun, before buying it.
Of course, you'd want some remaining mileage on that rifle's barrel. Take heart, benchrester's are making equipment changes all the time.


With regards,
357Mag
 
Some very good advice here for a new guy coming to Benchrest shooting. You as the asker need to answer a couple of questions before really sound advice can be given.

What discipline of Benchrest shooting are you interested in? Since almost all BPCR matchs are shot at distance are you thinking of making a real big move and going to Point Blank Benchrest (100 and 200 yd) as your start with smokeless powder? Or might you be interested in Mid Range and Long Range Benchrest?

Your choice in a cartridge will be greatly influenced by your intentions. if Point Blank is your goal I am not so sure that the 6PPC is the correct choice for a new shooter to Benchrest, and let me explan. The 6 PPC is a great cartridge no doubt about that. The learning curve for point Blank Benchrest alone is long, add to that the 6 PPC and it "can" be a daunting task. No more cross sticks and holding the butt in a competition. To be successful you are going to need a lot more equipment than a rifle, that is the easy part. you also will have to perfect your bench shooting technique. Your wind reading skills are going to "HAVE" to be superior to keep up with that Point Blank crowd, there is a lot to shooting that game, and thus a long learning curve.

Now to that add the 6 PPC. This cartridge is "In time" the place you want to be. There are things about the 6 PPC you need to know though. It is at its best when loaded at the range and tuned for the conditions that day and even that hour of the day. Most point Blank guys adjust there load as the day goes by to keep it in tune for the changing conditions. That is one of the reasons it is so good in the hands of the experienced shooter who actually knows what to do and when. Of the folks I shoot with 90% of them load at the match, the ones that "Pre-load" the 6 PPC are not really in contention most of the time, it is a picky cartridge. In the right hands superior, but with a guy new to the game and trying to perfect so much else to be a good and competitive shooter it is a little to much MAYBE.

The advice given for a Custom Rifle is right on the money. There is no Factory rifle that is going to really compete from the get go. That doesn't mean a new build just that you want a custom built rifle. As to a cartridge for the NEW shooter I think a cartridge that you can pre-load for and still be in the hunt is a much better choice. The 30 BR falls into that slot pretty well as does the 6 BR. Both can be pre-loaded and still are up to the task for the most part. They both are very accurate, easy to load for and are great learning tools.

Now if you are leaning towards Mid range and long Range Benchrest, you can forget every thing in this post up to this point...

Roland
 
Hmmm...more to this than I reckoned. I had thought also of the 22PPC but now I'm not sure. My shooting would probably entail 100-300 yards as to my knowledge our high power range that exceeds the "bench rest range"(100-300yards) is mostly for the Civilian Marksmanship bunch with their M1 Garands and for muzzle loaders. It runs to 1000 yards.There's no clubs involving bench rest competition to my knowledge and what I would be doing is on my own-punching tiny holes in paper targets 100-300 yards. I kinow of no bench rest shooters I've met at the range. Most are into sighting in their hunting rifles, SKS's and an occasional 300 Blackout shooter.

Having invested quite a few dollars in the BPCR shooting and all that goes with that and the tools and equipment involve not to mention three rifles from $1850-2800 I don't know that I could afford to get into bench rest shooting after all. I can see it involves more time and money than I'll probably be willing to part with-especially now being retired since January. I guess this is something I should have gotten into many moons ago and kept up with the changes over the years. Seems a shame but I think I need to bow out. At 67 I'd never get caught up with what's going on anyway.

Many thanks for the comments and suggestions and I hope I didn't waste too much of your time.
 
ColColt,
No need to be hasty in your decision. Tennessee has quite a lot of Benchrest Shooting. There is a great club at Oak Ridge, Tn that offers more than one discipline of shooting. On the west end there is a great Benchrest program being held in Memphis. There also is the UBR ( Ultimate Benchrest) that hold monthly matchs all over your part of the country, this is VFS shooting ( Varmint For Score) these are a hell of a lot of fun. East of you I also believe there are quite a few places to shoot a match just about any time you would want to.

There is a learning curve for shooting Benchrest, tell me a sport where this isn't true. I also have shot for years Black Powder Cartridge Rifles. My interest was mostly Silhouette back when I was active in that sport. I have attended the Nationals at Raton many times for the 1,000 yd BPCR championships as well as the Silhouette nationals held there every year. There certainly was a learning curve for that sport like starting completely over. I also am right around your age and while my interest today is more with the Long Range matchs I dabble in Point Blank shooting when I get the chance, and I have only been at this High Power type shooting for a couple of years I am certainly having success some of the time.

Take your time and find and attend a match or two, you will be surprised at what you find I think. Benchrest shooters for the most part are some of the Friendlist and helpful folks you will ever meet. Talk to a couple of them at get some advice face to face. I am sure that at least one of them will be happy for you to try a target or two as well. I personally always bring a spare match rifle and ammo to each shoot I attend just in case there is some one there who would like to give it a try.

Good Luck to you and I hope you give this a try.

Roland
 
We need to hook you up with Jerry Sharrett. He lives near Knoxville. I think he told me that there are 4 or 5 ranges within 30 min of his house.

I know of three ranges shooting some form of benchrest near Knoxville. I'm confident that there are more.

Heck, we had the UBR National Championship at Buck Creek near Somerset, KY this weekend. It shouldn't be too far to come to matches.

You might look at the NBRSA, IBS and UBR sites to check. That is just registered matches. There will be more that are not registered and tend to be under the radar.

BTW, do not be intimidated by the 6 PPC. You do not have to load at the range, etc. That is not to say that the PPC is the undisputed king in every form of benchrest.

Bottom line: if you have the precision bug, jump in and have fun.
 
short range BR

ColColt _

Howdy !

...What " Hombre " said ".

It's sorta like... " Accuracy costs money. How accurate do you want to be " ?

You can go attend, compete, learn, grow in shooting skills and all sorts of positive stuff... and still perhaps never " win " a competition.
Just ask the guys shooting things like the " Super Shoot ".

Hombre's ideas for finding mentor already into short-range benchrest are a wonderful example of how these benchrest guys operate.

I've shot some benchrest, my ownself. While I have not won jack, I have learned.... a lot !

Benchrest could prove to be the toughest "shooting" you'll ever love !



With regards,
357Mag
 
I had gotten bench rest shooting in my blood many years ago. A fellow I use to work with was heavy into it and told me of the extremes he went to with the cartridge case, bullet run out, primer pocket reaming and deburring, etc. I found it quite interesting but didn't get far enough in it as I wanted since I was having to work a fair amount out of town and when I got home was too tuckered to do much other than cut the grass, eat and go to bed. I have much more time on my hands now.

My gracious thanks for the "pick me up". Guess I needed that. I'm not entirely abandoning this idea but I suppose I had in hopes I'd find Remington was still making the 40X-B rifles like they once did and I'd get that .222 and make little .250" inches five shot holes in 100 yard targets. I guess I'm way behind times as I may only get that wish taking a trip to Fantasy Island.

I'm a member of ORSA but fairly new to that range and assumed they didn't have anyone interested in bench rest rifles or competition. I know they sure don't with BPCR competition from what all I've gleaned. There's another range out Rifle Range Road but that's on the other side of town from me. Oak Ridge is probably closer where I currently go to run my loads through the Shiloh smoke pole weekly. I'll give this some more thought and thanks.
 
ColColt said:
I had gotten bench rest shooting in my blood many years ago. A fellow I use to work with was heavy into it and told me of the extremes he went to with the cartridge case, bullet run out, primer pocket reaming and deburring, etc. I found it quite interesting but didn't get far enough in it as I wanted since I was having to work a fair amount out of town and when I got home was too tuckered to do much other than cut the grass, eat and go to bed. I have much more time on my hands now.

My gracious thanks for the "pick me up". Guess I needed that. I'm not entirely abandoning this idea but I suppose I had in hopes I'd find Remington was still making the 40X-B rifles like they once did and I'd get that .222 and make little .250" inches five shot holes in 100 yard targets. I guess I'm way behind times as I may only get that wish taking a trip to Fantasy Island.

I'm a member of ORSA but fairly new to that range and assumed they didn't have anyone interested in bench rest rifles or competition. I know they sure don't with BPCR competition from what all I've gleaned. There's another range out Rifle Range Road but that's on the other side of town from me. Oak Ridge is probably closer where I currently go to run my loads through the Shiloh smoke pole weekly. I'll give this some more thought and thanks.
Click to expand...

Be aware that you can buy a used 6PPC Bench Rest gun for less than a (used) 40X

And I'll disagree w/Roland re the 6PPC being picky. Preloading the PPC is as easy as preloading any other round. The Super Shoot, the greatest accuracy venue on earth has been won with preloaded rounds.
 
Disagree all you want, but you are not looking at this in the proper context. You are recommending for some personal reason a cartridge that is superior in many ways, in the right hands. You then make a statement that the pre-loaded 6ppc has won the Super Shoot. Wonder how many super Shoot shooters pre-loaded there ppc's that had the very small amount of experience that the Colonel does at this time. Are you not comparing Super Shoot participants and the Colonel in such a way as comparing apples to Elephants? So I guess following that kind of misguided logic the 6ppc would be the absolute cartridge for any shooter at any level of expertise. Then you are kidding yourself.

Take the Colonel as an example. He plainly stated he wanted to get started in benchrest shooting. He also stated he is a "NOOB" his words. He has been away from Smokeless shooting for so long a period of time that he was under the impression that the .222 was still king of the hill, and had just found out about the 6 ppc recently when he started doing some research into modern Benchrest shooting. All of this means that he is lacking experience in smokeless shooting and loading, after having been away for an extended amount of time. You then state the 6 ppc is not "Picky" ( my words). If you will look at this from the view point of this new to the sport shooter and still come to the conclusion that the 6ppc is the best cartridge for this man and at this time, you are certainly kidding yourself in my opinion. YMMV of course.
Roland
 
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Well

Check to see what is shot in your area, score or group. Your rifle and caliber may likely hinge on this. If both are shot you may end up with a dual caliber rifle....6/mm and 30 cal.
 
Roland-You mentioned being at Raton. I'm sure you probably ran across Mike Venturino, Steve Garbe, Dan Theodore or Don McDowell. I couldn't get into Silhouette shooting as I can't hold a 12 pound rifle steady enough to hit chickens at 200 yards or so. That's what my 40-70SS weighs, 12 pounds six ounces. Sitting at the bench or sitting with cross sticks or prone, yep I could do well there. I'm mostly and have always been a paper puncher. That's why I liked and still do bench rest shooting.

Time was the .22 caliber dominated the Bench Rest sport and I figured it always would...especially in .222. It seems now it's the 6mm in some form or fashion. i never would have thought any 6mm could be more accurate than a .22 wildcat. That's what I get for thinking, I suppose.

I'm curious about why loading at the range is necessary over just brewing up your loads at home and taking them with you. What's the advantage of doing it on the spot? No doubt a silly question for asked in all sincerity as I don't know better.

BTW-My current baby...a Shiloh sharps in 40-70 Sharps Straight caliber.



 
Colonel,
Yes I do know all of those guys you mentioned. Of course Garbe and Venturino have both been spokesmen for that sport ( Silhouette) for many years. I do believe that Steve Garbe has moved away from Silhouette and is shooting Schuetzen now on that crazy 75 ring German target.

Dan Theodore is a friend of mine and we used to live in adjoining towns in California. As a matter of fact you may have heard of the annual "Cypher Shoot" held in Mexia Texas. Dan and myself were the guys who came up with that Challenge match. In the beginning there was a huge pissing contest going on in the Silhouette world about which was better the "Big" bore calibers or the "Mouse" gun calibers like the 38's and 35's. I started this shoot idea because I got sick and tired of all of the moaning and groaning about which was best. This was on the old Shooters . com board in 2002. I posted on that board that why don't some of you guys put your butte were your mouth is, pick a Silhouette range somewhere in the middle of the country and lets have a challenge match and decide once and for all which is best.

Little did I know what I was about to start. The match Director David Barnes of a little Silhouette range in Mexia, Texas posted that his club ( The Heart Of Texas Silhouette club) would be glad to host this match. We then set the date and it was on. This little Range in Mexia had never seen more than 15 or 20 shooters in its life. The range itself was in a working Cattle pasture and before you could shoot you had to gather those cows and get them to another pasture. Dan and myself got there on Tuesday with the match being on Saturday. I wanted as much time on this range before the shoot as was possible to try and get a handle on the wind. On match day there were over 200 people in that pasture for the shoot. Word of this challenge match had spread on the internet and folks came from as far away as Ohio. Some came just to watch some came to shoot. I believe we had right around 85 or 90 shooters.

I was shooting a Meacham Highwall in 45-90, Dan was shooting a Shiloh Sharps in 35-50 Maynard. This 35 caliber he was shooting was later deemed illegal after a lot of complaints from a few shooters. Conners the NRA guy for Silhouette did this on his own and for a pretty lame reason, this soured me on BPCRS and I only shot for a year or so after that, and went to Long Range BPCR. I ended up winning that match after a shoot off on the Off-Hand Chickens. That was the worst shoot off I had ever been in. My score going into the shoot off was 32 out of a possible 40. I had run all 30 of the Prone Targets, and had two chickens off hand. The guy I was shooting against score was 24 of the Prone or lay down targets and he had 8 chickens.

I only had 34 loaded rounds before shooting the shoot off, and was just hopeful I could hit at least one more. I shot those 34 rounds and never even came close to hitting a chicken, funny thing was neither could the other guy. One of the other shooter brought me his left over ammo so that I could continue and not have to forfeit. I took this borrowed and unknown load and busted that 35th chicken right off of the rail to win that first ever Cypher Shoot Big Bore vs Mosquito Mauler Challenge Match. I believe they still hold this shoot each year still.

As to your question about range loading and pre-loading I am just not the guy to give you an accurate answer. I only shoot one Point Blank match a month and I don't shoot it with a 6 ppc. I just don't have the knowledge on this little cartridge to be helpful. I do know this the guys who are up on the 6 ppc are shooting little bitty groups and the most competitive of those load at the match to keep that fine edge tune going on all day. For the VFS matchs I shoot I am using a 30br and I do pre-load for that cartridge.

Very nice 74 by the way. Kirk and Lucinda do turn out a piece of work don't they?

Roland
 
While Kirk still had my rifle rebarreling it to 40-70SS I had been having a terrible time finding the right brass for it. BACO or Buffalo Arms, was about the only source and they were always on back order. I put in a plea on several websites and I think it was the CastBoolits website than Dan had sent me a PM that he had at least 100 cases in that caliber. I was ecstatic for a while, and bought them. Turns out you have to have d30-40 Krag brass specifically for the Shiloh as the rim is cut different and the head space different from the same brass used for original Sharps or those made by C. Sharps or that caliber in a Ballard or Meacham rifle...crazy. The ones Dan sent me were for the C. Sharps, not Shiloh sharps. The head space for those rifles are .064" whereas for the Shiloh it's .068". Nevertheless, I kept them and if push comes to shove I can still use them but, now I have the right ones and bought 200 cases.

I hadn't heard of the Cypher Shoot until now. I do know Garbe favors the "Mouse" rifles like the 38-55 as he mentions it in the book he and Venturino authored back in the 90's I guess it was and also did a write up in the SPG Primer. I have to admit, it's one of my favorites as well. I have a Winchester Legendary Frontiersman in that caliber as well as a C. Sharps 74. That was an interesting story and a good read to boot. Interesting why anyone would complain about the 35-50 Maynard being illegal. Maybe they were apprehensive about being out shot! I think with the right load the 38-55 and perhaps even the 35-50 with 3F and a heavier bullet could knock over the rams.

The reason I've tended toward smaller caliber, although I have the 45-70 and 40-70SS which is no pussy cat, is the 45-90 beat me to death. Two reasons for that. I had lost 45 pounds in the past two years and don't have the meat on my shoulders I once did. Secondly I picked a bad caliber for a crescent shaped steel skinny butt stock. You can see the shape and guess how thin the butt is on that rifle. Even now Ihave to use a Limb Saver. Moreover, things were worse since I'm on two blood thinners, Plavix and Warfarin. One week after my initial firing of 15 rounds(that's all I could shoot due to the pain) I was bruised badly and it took a month for most of it to go away. It was then I decided on a rebarrel.



There's several calibers that interest me in the realm of bench rest shooting and I'm still reading. Yep, indeed Kirk and Lucinda definitely know what a Sharps should look like and workmanship is without a doubt second to none. I wish Dave Higgenbotham were still alive. I'd love to have one of his Rollers.
 
I kind of hesitate to jump in here, but if you shot benchrest back when the Wasp or even the .222 was the chambering of choice, it'd be fair enough to say that things in benchrest have changed enough for you to consider yourself new to the sport.

One of the things that's changed, as others have mentioned, is the sport has bifurcated into score shooting and group shooting. Aside from the equipment and obvious difference between shooting for small group as opposed to high score, the match formats may have a bearing, even though you're a child of 67.

Most group matches begin 8:00am Saturday morning and finish around 3:00pm Sunday afternoon. In order to be on the line at 8:00am, you either drive all night Friday, or you add yet one more day. And then there is the drive home. I'm too damn old to finish shooting at 3:00, then clap for the winners, load the vehicle, and drive 4-5 more hours. I just add yet one more day.

Score matches typically begin 9:00 or 10:00 Saturday morning, and are finished by mid-afternoon. Not too tired & if it's not too far a drive, you sleep in your own bed that night. If it is a two-yardage score match, yes, you're back to a group schedule, but there are plenty of the one-day affairs.

Now score is a .30-caliber event. The bigger hole is just too much an advantage. .The 30 BR is the typical chambering, though a .30 PPC will do. Alternatively, in Tennessee and Kentucky, there is another sanctioning body, Universal BenchRest (UBR) where the targets are varied for caliber, so a .22, 6mm, and .30 all have equal chance.

I don't know if it is still going on, but Oak Ridge also had 600 yard matches. Now those of us who have shot long range know 600 yards isn't "long range." But it's there -- or at least, was, at Oak Ridge in Tennessee, and Piedmont in Western Carolina. And 600 yards is short enough that ranges spring up & get added to the schedule. They too are usually a one-day affair, and they too use different equipment than either of the others.

So: I'd give the same advice we give to new shooters. Go to a couple matches. If you can go to both kinds, score & group, go to both. Assume you don't know anything yet. Take it from there.

Here's a link to the IBS schedules generally

http://internationalbenchrest.com/schedule/index.php

(here's score)

http://internationalbenchrest.com/schedule/score.php

(here's long range, and I do see Oak Ridge for 600 yards)

http://internationalbenchrest.com/schedule/long_range.php

For group, it would be the NBRSA, and you're in the Southeastern region -- that's the Unaka range in Johnston City, Tennessee, for a home base. A little harder to get information on the NBRSA on the net, but here's a start:

http://www.nbrsa.org/Southeast-Region

Finally, here's UBR:

http://ultimatebenchrest.com/

All of it is shot off a bench, short range rifles weigh 10.5 to 13.5 pounds, long range rifles weighing 17 pounds (light gun) and no limit for the heavy. But at 600, the 17-pound LG is enough for both.

Take a look, ask questions if you need help, & good luck with it.

Edit:

Here's a link to ranges that hold IBS events, some NBRSA ranges aren't there, though

http://internationalbenchrest.com/ranges/usa_by_state.php
 
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Many thanks to taking the time to post all that. I know it took some time. When at the range the other day I did notice an older fellow...well, Older he may have been my age but he had a 7mm something or other and it was the most fancy rifle I've seen. It wasn't a 7mm Magnum Remington Sporter but some sort of bench rest rifle with a SS heavy barrel and odd looking stock(to me) and a very long scope. He had something hung out on the end of the barrel-looked like a piece of metal of some sort, maybe aluminum but I have no clue what it was for. Even though a 7mm it didn't make a lot of nice, certainly not like a 7mm I've heard before. He was shooting some tiny groups whatever it was. I didn't have much of a chance to talk with him as he was either shooting or others came up to talk about the rifle.

I was looking at the Internationalbenchrest.com website and was amazed at some of the record groups in different classes at 100 and 200 yards. Many were less than .250" which I find phenomenal. One fellow named Russel Raines shot a five shot group at 200 yards that measured a mere .096"!! All I can say to that is WOW!! I've never shot a group twice that size at 100 yards.

Charles E-You're right about everything changing over the years...virtually everything. From the rifles and rules to the various calibers I had never heard of for the most part and couldn't conceive of any caliber out shining the .222 Remington in a Hart barrel with a 700 action and a 24x Unertl scope. As Gomer use to say, surprise, surprise, surprise!

Oak Ridge does have a High Power Range that goes to 1000 yards and it's used for muzzle loaders and high powered rifles, that I know for sure. I don't know about bench rest as I know of no benches out there but need to inquire about all that.

Looking at some of the photos in the SE Region I noticed there were several that actually looked ten years my senior! I guess that goes to prove you're never too old for a fun day at the range. That was good to see. There ma be a degree of hope for me yet.

Assume you don't know anything yet.
Click to expand...

That's not an assumption from what I've seen and read but fact! I was looking in the classified ads and saw a couple rifles of interest but don't know if the barrels were shot out or not or how many rounds had been down that barrel. I know in BPCR barrels you're hard pressed to wear one out unless you neglect it. With bullets that have a velocity over 3000 fps and are already high pressure rounds, I can't imagine one gong too long before a replacement is necessary. An other tins, I'm not sure what all the classes mean like LV, HV and VH mean, I guess I need to google that. My one regret is that I didn't start this back when I first became interested in it.
 
In your post #3, you said:

At 67 I'd never get caught up with what's going on anyway.
Click to expand...

Hell, I'm older than you are. Believe Roland is too. Jerry Sharrett is, let's say, "over 75". I shot against Mike Walker a bunch when he was in his 90s, but he was an exceptional man.

Many of the people in the Southeastern Region Hall of Fame (different from the National Hall of Fame) got the majority of their points after retiring.

http://www.nbrsa.org/sites/default/files/SER HOF 7-20-2012.pdf

It is more a matter of health and esp. being in shape. I'm at the point where life by itself doesn't keep me in shape anymore. if I want to keep shooting, I'll have to work at it. That's the choice, and if we make the right one, shooting will lead to a better, if not longer life.
 
Find out what kind of benchrest they shoot at your local ranges. The short range shooting is divided into two camps. They are score shooting (where you have to actually hit what you shoot at) and group shooting (where you try to put 5 shots into the same hole anywhere on the target). I got involved in score shooting about 3 years ago. Most score matches have two classes and you can shoot custom (where you would use the 30BR) or factory class. There are many good guns to use in factory class (I started with a Remington .223 VLSS heavy barrel and won my first match with it) with Savage 6BR LRPV being among the most popular. They are wildly accurate for a factory rifle. I retired my Remington and ordered one when the guy beside me shot 20 bulls eyes in a row (3/4" bulls at 200 yards) for a perfect score with one right out of the box. I got a winner and it has won more than it's share of factory rifle matches.

As a couple of posts have already suggested, the 30BR would be your best choice for custom class score shooting. It will entail necking up 6BR brass to 30BR, but it's not that tough. There is a ton of excellent information on the 30BR at this link.

http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/30br/

I read all this multiple times and ordered a Bat MB action and a Krieger 17 twist 30 cal barrel and built them into a benchrest stock. That's when I finally started winning more than my share of the custom class matches. I missed first place in the Midwest VHA (Varmint Hunter's Association) match with it this year by one point, winning the second place money. I've never tried the 30BR in a group match, but there are those who have and came away winners against a field of 6PPCs.

I highly encourage you to try score shooting in either class with a 6BR or 30BR in custom. You will have a ball. I have literally become obsessed with it and drive two hours each way to the local match in Hillsdale, MI 3 Sundays a month. There is a great bunch of guys who shoot the 200 yard matches there regularly.

Best regards,

Ron
 
Charles E-I guess I'm in pretty good shape for this age. Other than a leg artery bypass that requires Plavix and Warfarin daily there's nothing wrong...to my knowledge. Funny you get to a given age and your mind tells you you're suppose to slow down and don't do this at than anymore and it becomes ingrained in your head. I'm not ready nor will I ever be ready for a sweater and a rocking chair yet! I do enjoy the pipe, though.

I watched a YouTube video today of an odd way to shoot. This guy was getting some great groups but had a very strange way of doing it. I'm still trying to figure out the lube he used whether it was Slick 50 or plain ol' Pennzoil.:eek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKswldMjS2E

The link provided was superb. I noticed Al Nyhus said, "The 30BR cartridge is formed by necking-up 6BR or 7BR brass." I looked for 6BR brass on Midway and what they have is 6mm Norma BR. Is that the same thing, basically? With a better barrel life than the 6PPC that caliber may be just the ticket. It would be nice if Remington made a rifle in that caliber without going through all the customization.
 
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