Rifle comparison

Hey Kent

You really busted my bubble. Here I thought I was a Pretty Good Shot. Come to find out, it wsn't me at all but rather the rifle. Well maybe those guys had it right last summer. They would never mention the shooter, but would congratulate the Gun. THIS IS A JOKE THIS IS A JOKE DON'T BUST MY BALLS THIS IS ONLY A JOKE!!!!! Thanks Fred Have a Good Day.
 
Fred
Now for the real test. Let me share the rifle with you next match. If it shoots well for me,then we will know for sure it is just the gun. It was good seeing you again and a pleasure to meet your wife
Don
 
Fred,
You are a real good shot! Didn't mean to offend you. I respect you a lot. I even own a Cadillac!!
Truth is what it is. There's always a rifle/ammo that's just on for the barn match, unfortunately it's never been mine:) Too many temperature swings. You done great on the win!

I was merely trying to give pacecil some type of answer and get away from BS that's been going on. Guys who are great shooters such as yourself could pitch in. I bet that ole rifle of yours shoots better than .2's:)
 
Last edited:
Like anyone else here, I would like to see 'the comparison', as well. I have owned and shot in competition with at least five different Calfee rifles (2 XP's, 2 40X's and an Anschutz 54). As a personal note, I would guarantee you that....if put in a machine rest, every one of those four, would be nearly 'one-holers'. I have enough experience to know a great rifle when I shoot one. I will admit, I have only ever shot ONE Gene Davis-built rifle. I borrowed it from another shooter, for one card in Iowa. It was a 40X, and it would shoot way better than my ability to shoot it....given conditions. I have NEVER shot a Meyers-built rifle, altho I've beat a couple in competition....and LOST to a couple in competition. Was it due to each shooters' ability? We may never know. I have only ever SEEN a Gorham-built rimfire, never directly competed against one.

But that's not the problem with a realistic actual 'comparison'. And the problem isn't that the same shooter can't shoot two or three or four makers rifles with the same lot of the same ammo, simultaneously. The problem lies in that, we are talking about factory loaded rimfire ammunition. And I don't care how much experience you have, or how expensive your ammo is, or how well you think you have your tuner adjusted for THAT ammo from THAT barrel, or how well you can read the wind (which are ALL ultimately important to doing well in this sport).......even from the same barrel, the same lot of ammo, from the same box even.....you can always get a 'slight' flyer. And you don't know when that will occur, even in a serious 'TEST'.

All I can say is that Mr Myer builds rfiles that will shoot better than the guy pulling the trigger can shoot. And so does Mr Davis, and so does Mr Gorham, and so does Mr Calfee. Being a Calfee rimfire rfile owner,.....have I ever wanted, no let's say SERIOUSLY LONGED FOR, a Meyers or Davis or Gorham rifle to shoot in competition? The simple answer is, not really. But that's just me. ;)




* As a side note......Do I wish I had been the winning bidder on "NITE TRAIN"? You bet!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I know a fellow that owns at least 12 or 13 bench guns. He owns Calfee's, Myers', Penrod's, Davis's, a Hongisto and who knows what else. I can guarantee you that he has ammo situations between rifles. His great ammo's don't work in every gun or even any two of them. That is why he doesn't shoot much anymore. It became to cumbersome to test ammo for the rifles. It is easy for each of us to say just sell a couple of them and concentrate on another couple. But that isn't why he owns them.

Carp
 
re-read the previous thread before deletion and

Beau gave a half good answer when he said you look at groups and you can tell how it is shooting and what ammo to use (paraphrase not good but the intent seems to be somewhat accurate but dont have that post to compare)

the point is in centerfire you better know how your rifle groups, mine strive for a flat 2 or better or stay home,

rimfire is the same about a flat 2 or so to be competitive,

I stayed away since I dont compete and am not well know in rimfire there was no point in answering,

this forum now seems to want to dance around the topic rather than just answer the question, if you just shoot score targets then measure the targets overlapping for the answer,

I KNOW THE OTHER VARIABLES LIKE AMMO AVAILABILITY, WIND TEMP AND SO ON AFFECT THE GROUP SIZE DAILY BUT COME ON THE ANSWER IS OUT THERE SCULLY

maybe the true question is for the true competitors is this

"""" at what point do you throw away the barrel and not compete,
mid 2's low 3's is the groups were 5 shot groups """""

all compeittors know the answer off by heart. they strive for groups in the xxxx or they rebarrel,

most gunsmiths that shoot a customers rifle before sending it out know about how well it stacks up,

most smiths could tell you a mid 2 rifle is ...% competitive based on their experience with competitions,

the question was not that hard, and yes I know a lot of you just shoot to test ammo,

BUT IF THE AMMO YOU GOT WAS ALL IN THE 3'S YOU WOULD STAY HOME

maybe I will post a real question shortly on bore curve, and indexing, that ought to get the natives going...........

Jefferson
 
J Pappas said:
You need to buy a couple of those rifles and see if you can match those groups at the range. Let me know how that works for you. Rimfire benchrest shooters already know the answer to your question.
Click to expand...

James, I beg to disagree with you... There are a number of Coopers that have been either in or near the top place in many local level matches in the past. And if my memory is correct, one of the National rimfire Matches shot in August 2007 I believe had a Cooper in one of the top five positions. I do not remember the details at this point but Seems to me the Cooper was in either in third or fourth place...

I own a Cooper LVT .22LR that came with a beautiful itty bitty one hole test target. This Cooper has a beautiful AAA Claro fiddle back stock that is great to look at but terrible for benchrest shooting especially in a one piece rest...

Even for that, I shot the Cooper LVT this past spring in one of the RBA rimfire benchrest matches and was not disappointed with the Cooper itself even though on a windy, rainy stormy New England spring day (with wind gusts to 50 mph according to NOAA we learned after the match). The wind was blowing the rain into our faces and I managed to shoot a 234-6X target with the Cooper in the worst conditions I have ever shot in.

I have no plans to waste time trying to duplicate the test target Cooper shipped with the gun as I have very little information as to exactly how they test shoot them other than it is done with Lapua ammo and I shoot Eley and use a one piece rest...

I do know this, the Cooper LVT that I have will shoot just as well as my Winchester 52D and someday, I'm thinking about putting the Cooper into a good solid wood benchrest stock as I think it has the capability to be competitive even with the factory trigger that adjusts to 8 oz. If that were to establish the Cooper's capability to my satisfaction, then I might consider changing the trigger to a Jard 2.0 oz trigger... As far as I can tell from my own testing at this point, the Cooper does have the accuracy potential if a number of small issues such as a crappy stock and heavier than normal for BR shooting trigger are resolved... Remember, this is a gun designed and made to be a sporter/varmint type gun based on the same action as the Cooper TRP-3 target rifle with a Douglas match barrel.

Do I think or expect my Cooper LVT to shoot like a top end Turbo or Hall actioned BR gun, No... But I do think it is a good enough shooting gun to be a solid performing back up gun and is what I plan to replace my Winchester 52D as my back up gun. And who knows, with the right tuning, maybe it does have the potential...

But NOT in the Cooper factory stock, ergonomically, its the poorest fit to me or the one piece rest of any gun that I have ever owned...

Merry Christmas Y'all,

Happy Shooting,
Mitch & Shadow...
 
I am a new competitive shooter,but have been shooting rimfire along time,and we would have guns somedays shoot great and the nextday it was a joke. But that was life sometimes you have to take the good with the bad or get the LORD himself to build your guns and ammo!!!
 
Mitch

ShadowChaser said:
James, I beg to disagree with you... There are a number of Coopers that have been either in or near the top place in many local level matches in the past. And if my memory is correct, one of the National rimfire Matches shot in August 2007 I believe had a Cooper in one of the top five positions. I do not remember the details at this point but Seems to me the Cooper was in either in third or fourth place...

I own a Cooper LVT .22LR that came with a beautiful itty bitty one hole test target. This Cooper has a beautiful AAA Claro fiddle back stock that is great to look at but terrible for benchrest shooting especially in a one piece rest...

Even for that, I shot the Cooper LVT this past spring in one of the RBA rimfire benchrest matches and was not disappointed with the Cooper itself even though on a windy, rainy stormy New England spring day (with wind gusts to 50 mph according to NOAA we learned after the match). The wind was blowing the rain into our faces and I managed to shoot a 234-6X target with the Cooper in the worst conditions I have ever shot in.

I have no plans to waste time trying to duplicate the test target Cooper shipped with the gun as I have very little information as to exactly how they test shoot them other than it is done with Lapua ammo and I shoot Eley and use a one piece rest...

I do know this, the Cooper LVT that I have will shoot just as well as my Winchester 52D and someday, I'm thinking about putting the Cooper into a good solid wood benchrest stock as I think it has the capability to be competitive even with the factory trigger that adjusts to 8 oz. If that were to establish the Cooper's capability to my satisfaction, then I might consider changing the trigger to a Jard 2.0 oz trigger... As far as I can tell from my own testing at this point, the Cooper does have the accuracy potential if a number of small issues such as a crappy stock and heavier than normal for BR shooting trigger are resolved... Remember, this is a gun designed and made to be a sporter/varmint type gun based on the same action as the Cooper TRP-3 target rifle with a Douglas match barrel.

Do I think or expect my Cooper LVT to shoot like a top end Turbo or Hall actioned BR gun, No... But I do think it is a good enough shooting gun to be a solid performing back up gun and is what I plan to replace my Winchester 52D as my back up gun. And who knows, with the right tuning, maybe it does have the potential...

But NOT in the Cooper factory stock, ergonomically, its the poorest fit to me or the one piece rest of any gun that I have ever owned...

Merry Christmas Y'all,

Happy Shooting,
Mitch & Shadow...
Click to expand...

I believe his question was " would this be one of the BEST rimfire rifles in the world"?
 
Don

Don Stith said:
Fred
Now for the real test. Let me share the rifle with you next match. If it shoots well for me,then we will know for sure it is just the gun. It was good seeing you again and a pleasure to meet your wife
Don
Click to expand...

It is not a "MAGIC GUN".
 
The targets I looked at were not from the same Cooper rifle so to be fair we have say that I saw five 5 shot targets that were in the zeros from five different guns. This should be a pretty good test that represents what those rifles, or let's say A cooper rifle, is capable of. So, there's the test we will use for comparison. If you have a rifle that will shoot five 5 shot targets in the zeros, let's see your targets. I didn't measure so we'll just say if you can average less than .09 we'll call your gun better. So, there's the challenge - average under .09 and you might have the best gun in the world!
 
Wait a minute!! You missed one little fact. There was no certification with those 5 shot groups that they were the first and only group shot to prove it's accuracy. At the gun manufacturers shop that I worked at, they shot groups until they got one that they thought was good enough to include with the gun.
 
Valid comparison

Since we don't shoot our rifles in a closed test facilty, the only was to get a valid comparison, would be to shoot all rifles side by side, and change shooters each target.
 
Hello All,

Well seems to me these guys might have been doing this for little while now.

ARG Records

Now how hard would it be to offer shooters the opportunity to do this at a regular match? Shoot 5, 5 shot groups and post the results.......

Would be interesting to say the least.

Roger
 
Good idea Roger, like an after match, match.

Might have to try and incorporate that next time out.
 
Gambler,
No. Rex Slye. Heck of a shooter. Great equipment. Wis hhe would start shooting again.

Carp
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top