Remington 700 Extraction Issues
- Thread starter antelopedundee
- Start date
Though not manufactured currently, an RWHart handle once a radius was blended out w/ a #6 needle file is/was a perfect fit for a Remington.
( I bought all RWHart had in inventory)
I never assume any handle will TIME correctly.
Any TIG welder w/ experience(s) & not wasting argon should be capable.
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antelopedundee
internet bum
The only 2 cases that I had stuck last year were fired in a 6.5-06AI. It must not be that hard for a case to slip out of an extractor's grip. My notes indicate that the load was a little warm. I had previously fired a couple hundred or so rounds through it with no issue.
Mike Bryant
Active member
There are no telling how many 700 bolts I’ve sent to Dan in the past several years to fix the lack of extraction camming that the RR serial numbered actions had. When I get them back from him they are right. With earlier 700 actions, you could make truing cuts on the bolt and receiver lugs and still have plenty of extraction camming. When the 700’s were redesigned for CNC production someone in the re-design process didn’t understand what the function of the extraction cam did, and extraction camming suffered.
antelopedundee
internet bum
I have 3 of the left hand RR actions. Just one of them seems to have a gap between the front of the bolt handle and the rear of the action similar to the one pictured [bottom pic] after handle relocation. The one pictured [top pic] was the worst of the three.
antelopedundee
internet bum
Understand that anything that moves the cam angles away from each other reduces the amount of mechanical extraction.
-Truing up the internal lug abuttments moves the angles apart because the bolt is now further rearward.
-Facing off the back of the bolt lugs moves the angles apart because the bolt is now further rearward.
Even if you're only talking about a total of .005-.006 total material removed in both operations, the amount of mechanical camming for extraction has been reduced. Since the interfaces of the receiver cam surface and the bolt cam surface are angled, now the mechanical camming 'work' happens across a shorter amount of surface, over a shorter amount of bolt rotation and the bolt has to rotate further 'up' before the camming starts. If the bolt fit is loose in the raceway, this also adds to the issue as the back of the bolt moves upward when opening and the cam angle(s) interface can become further reduced. Spreading out the 'work load' always pays dividends.
Whether it's "..always necessary", obviously it depends on how much camming the receiver and bolt have before any machining is done. At a minimum, they need to be checked and corrected if needed.
The late Stan Ware (SGR Custom Rifles) was repositioning bolt handles as part of his 700 work as far back as the late '80's. I have quite a few 700 receivers that Stan massaged...most with enlarged raceways and his one piece bolt sleeve. The 700 receiver for my 250 Ackley didn't require Stan to do any handle repositioning, which was unusual.
On earlier 700 receivers that had been 'trued up', you can get a basic idea of the camming it had by looking at the gap between the front of the handle and the handle notch in the receiver.
The later unmodified 700 receivers (in the CNC era) with the notorious 'no cam' issues can't be evaluated this way as the bolt tube itself is different from the earlier bolts. Dan Armstrong has commented on this several times and explained the differences.
Here's an example of spreading out the load and taking full advantage of the cam angles. The original bolt handle (bottom) on this custom action had only the forward edge as the contact surface to the cam angle on the receiver. You can see in the picture that it had already started to wear the lower edge...which gives a hint. As well, the edge-only contact area on the bolt handle acts to pivot the the handle on the bolt tube, despite it being silver soldered and bolted on. This culminated in the infamous 'Red Hammer Incident' that's still being talked about in our region.Parts, pieces and parts of pieces went everywhere...some are still in the soil forward of the firing line at the Holmen Rod and Gun Club in Holmen, Wisconsin.
My 2 cents worth, for what it's worth. Coffee at Wall Drug (Wall, South Dakota) is only 5 cents so my 2 cents just gets you 40%....
Good shootin' -Al
Hopefully in a few weeks I'll be slammin down some of that 5 cent coffee!
How many open-close cycles would it take to wear down the cam surfaces to no or almost no contact? 25,000? More? Less? Anyone ever rebarreled an action enough times to wear them out?
antelopedundee
internet bum
Just for fun and games I too pics of my other 2 700 RR actions. These are as I got them back from the smith.
#1 is a .25-06 with something over 200 rounds with nary an issue. The gap between the front of the bolt handle and the rear of the action is about 0.020.
#2 is a 6.5-06 with zero rounds through it. The gap between the front of the bolt handle and the rear of the action is about 0.008.
Apparently Remington folks were kind of sloppy about how they put them on.
#1 is a .25-06 with something over 200 rounds with nary an issue. The gap between the front of the bolt handle and the rear of the action is about 0.020.
#2 is a 6.5-06 with zero rounds through it. The gap between the front of the bolt handle and the rear of the action is about 0.008.
Apparently Remington folks were kind of sloppy about how they put them on.
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Op,
Since you missed it,first time around-
Per your pics-
You have post 2006 "SHORT CAM" bolt handles on said bolts, that are approximately.160" OUT of TIME radially.
The clearance between the handle & rear receiver ring is only ONE part of the equation.
The above is critical in that if the handle was positioned (fwd/aft) too far forward, the bolt would NOT fit back into the receiver.
The rotation of the bolt/handle's cam surface facilitates the extraction when the bolt body is rotated out of Battery.
The bolt HANDLE stops bolt rotation clockwise & counterclockwise.
Follow the instructions that I previously posted to verify the issue.
With your current configuration, you have at best 20-25% primary extraction.
Pushing the bolt fwd is only fooling the owner & is NOT the correct procedure as that is NOT how the bolt/lugs/handle/integrals are oriented after firing said rifle.
Since you missed it,first time around-
Per your pics-
You have post 2006 "SHORT CAM" bolt handles on said bolts, that are approximately.160" OUT of TIME radially.
The clearance between the handle & rear receiver ring is only ONE part of the equation.
The above is critical in that if the handle was positioned (fwd/aft) too far forward, the bolt would NOT fit back into the receiver.
The rotation of the bolt/handle's cam surface facilitates the extraction when the bolt body is rotated out of Battery.
The bolt HANDLE stops bolt rotation clockwise & counterclockwise.
Follow the instructions that I previously posted to verify the issue.
With your current configuration, you have at best 20-25% primary extraction.
Pushing the bolt fwd is only fooling the owner & is NOT the correct procedure as that is NOT how the bolt/lugs/handle/integrals are oriented after firing said rifle.
That's part of the problem "someone said at lgs"