Red Alert! 6mm Beggs NT

G

Gene Beggs

Active member
Well, actually it's not that bad, but I thought I should get the word out as quickly as possible. I was wrong about something. :eek: Yeah, imagine that. :rolleyes:

By now, most of you know that when I am proven wrong, I'll unashamedly admit it. Such is the case with the no-neck-turn Beggs cartridges; at least as it pertains to extreme, benchrest competition accuracy. Lou Murdica and others were right; when we are looking for the ultimate in accuracy, we must use neck-turned brass. :eek:

For several weeks, I have been shooting my HV rifle, 'ole Bud' in no-turn 6mm Beggs. The rifle has always shot great. It was first chambered with a .269 neck and then set back and re-chambered with the .274 no-turn reamer. My first set of cases must have been unusually good, because I just plucked them out of the box. The loaded rounds consistently showed less than .001 TIR and the rifle shot every bit as well as it did with the .269 neck and turned brass; that is,,, until I changed cases. :eek:

Yeah, I shot those first ten cases until I got tired of looking at them and decided it was time for new ones. I took ten new cases out of another box and went to work. The rifle quit shooting. :eek:

I tried everything during the past three days and nothing worked. A quick check of loaded round runout showed most with over .002 TIR with as much as .001 difference in neck wall thickness from one side to the other. Bummer, :mad:

So,,,,,,tomorrow, I will set the barrel back and rechamber with the .269 neck reamer and turn some cases for it. I know what will happen, but I'll let you know the results.

Oh well,, you never know till you try; huh? But,, it should be remembered that even though the no-turn cartridges may not be the ultimate for benchrest competition, they are ideal for the live varmint and hunting rifles. The no-turn 220 Beggs is hell on wheels as a prairie dog gun.

Okay, Louie,,, you're right man, thanks for straightening me out.:eek: From now on, it's turned brass and tight necks for old Beggs. :D

Later,

Gene Beggs
 
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The lesson in it is................sample size and population source.......Hindsight says: When testing something like this, first decide what the biggest variable is (internal/external neck concentricity), then beat the bushes and find the worst examples (from different lots of Lapua brass) that can be found. Then establish a control group of the best cases, and at least several groups from median amd worst-condition cases. Then test the various groups against one another as well as neck turned cases.

All that said, I find your work and style of reporting the results interesting, and must say that you've sparked some real curiousity within me concerning various aspects of our rifles.

-Dave-:)
 
Just a thought

Gene,
I wonder what would have been the results if you had left every thing the same except running the reamer with the bigger neck diameter in. That would give you the same crown,threads and barrel length. Just a thought.
Bob
 
Gene,

If one set of cases doesn't prove the idea is good, one set of cases also shouldn't prove the idea is bad.

Why not go through all the remaining cases, making a "good" pile and a "bad" pile. From these, take a "good" set and a "bad" set, & see if you can duplicate your results so far.
 
Bob Brushingham said:
Gene,
I wonder what would have been the results if you had left every thing the same except running the reamer with the bigger neck diameter in. That would give you the same crown,threads and barrel length. Just a thought.
Bob
Click to expand...

Bob, don't misunderstand; go back and re-read my original post and you will see that you missed something very important. The tight neck version of the 6mm Beggs can be any diameter you wish; the no-turn version is .274, ideal for hunting rifles. I will stick to the .269 neck for benchrest.

Thanks

Gene Beggs
 
Charles E said:
Gene,

If one set of cases doesn't prove the idea is good, one set of cases also shouldn't prove the idea is bad.

Why not go through all the remaining cases, making a "good" pile and a "bad" pile. From these, take a "good" set and a "bad" set, & see if you can duplicate your results so far.
Click to expand...

Charles, I am convinced that the best choice is to use minimum-turn necks. That removes any doubt from the shooter's mind about the concentricity of his loaded rounds. Jackie has proven the .269 neck works very well in the 6mm cartridges and that's what I will stick with in the future.

Thanks for your input.

Later,

Gene Beggs
 
No problem Gene, as long as the only claim you make is the comfort of the shooter's mind. But
JACKIE! HEY JACKIE! I hope you haven't reamed the neck out on that .269 neck 6mm Beggs rail gun barrel. Leave that thing alone man! I have already proven what we need to know.
Click to expand...
goes beyond "comfort." I don't want to keep seeing people saying "Gene Beggs proved this," when the basis for that proof was what, 5-10 cases?

Not that I think you're wrong, but I'd note that I've shot small groups with loaded rounds having .002 TIR. Not in a tunnel, just in testing & occasionally competition -- & I'll allow it was 1,000 yard competition with big, long cases. Still, the best 10-shot group I ever shot was with such rounds.
 
Good point Charles. I haven't really 'proven' anything; just sharing my experiences with others. Although my brief experience with no-turn cases was interesting, I agree with Lou Murdica and others who have posted here on the forum; when you are looking for extreme accuracy, you must leave nothing to chance.

Like I said, I will stick with the .269 neck for the 6mm and .250 for the 220. This leaves no doubt about loaded round concentricity.

Sorry if I stepped out of line with my comment to Jackie. Please be assured, I am not offended in any way by your comments and appreciate you keepin' us in line. :)

Later,

Gene Beggs
 
220 Beggs

Gene,

What you are saying in that you agree with Lou, is that the reamer, .255 .224 reamer with no free bore that I got from Dave Kiff today is useless except for PD's? Looks like I will have to order another reamer, sigh.

:confused:
 
depends on what you want to do.......actually to go down to a neck turn...just get the reamer reground.....pretty simple....
if on the other hand you were trying to build a no turn neck competition rifle...i think the jury is still out.
just wait and see.....

and if it was not a custom for you reamer..he might trade you...ask

mike
 
RL Weikart said:
Gene,

What you are saying in that you agree with Lou, is that the reamer, .255 .224 reamer with no free bore that I got from Dave Kiff today is useless except for PD's? Looks like I will have to order another reamer, sigh.

:confused:
Click to expand...

Bob, I will be using the .250 neck for the 220 from now on. Send the reamer back to Dave and I will pay him for reducing the neck diameter from .255 to .250. He is good about this sort of thing; ask him to call me if he has any questions. I'm as serious as I can be and I also extend the same offer to anyone else who wants to have their reamer reground.

Best regards

Gene Beggs
 
Lou Murdica said:
Let me start with this fact, I am not saying anyone’s ideas are wrong because they might have good results with them. And, Gene I did not post my results to prove you or anyone else wrong. I was trying to state that there are a lot of new shooters that read our posts and might start out in benchrest trying different things and get discouraged quick. I think it’s great when you and other shooters come up with new things and, I could not shoot without your wind indicator or Doc’s ppc case.
Dave Blazzard got me testing unturned necks 3 or 4 years ago. I think he is still shooting very thick necks just cleaned up with minimal turned off. I remember trying with
Gil Hudson about 10 years ago a 6mm wall dog. We called it the pup. It shot 60 and 62 grain bullets not great but, ok. Then we tried the 6 Russian with out any changes to the case. Shot ok, but, like the pup case they always got sticky.
Gene keep doing what your doing and like you I love to explore.
Click to expand...

Thanks Louie, I appreciate you sharing that info with us. I did not know about you and Dave experimenting so extensively with the no-turn necks and I did not take any of your comments to mean you were trying to prove me wrong. The fact that both you and I decided to stay with the tight neck chambers says a lot.

Yeah, you bet,,, like you I love poking into every corner of this game; experimenting is where it's at for me. :D

See you at the Cactus.

Best regards,

Gene Beggs
 
Thank you Tony. If they ever run me out of West Texas, I know I have friends in the hills of Tennessee.

Later,

Gene Beggs
 
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