Rate these actions

Hehe..

Hey Bnhpr,

Sell the Ruger and then look at one of these...http://www.snipercentral.com/spstactical.htm
Note: new trigger but Jewel is better. And the price is awesome.


vicvanb equal to Mod70 :rolleyes: vicvanb not equal to Mauser ;)


Come one vic lets see a pic, paaalllleeeeeeaaassssee :eek:

Have fun!

:D:D:D
 
Butch Lambert said:
Vicvanb,
Pre64 M70 receivers are at least $650 and higher. The rifles are much higher. I think that there are better choices.
Butch
Click to expand...



HUH???

I've never paid more than $600 for an entire rifle! The last one was a 300 H&H that came with a scope (Leupold) and a CASE of ammo.

I have bought a half-dozen '06s that were under $500. I think they are nice slick actions, but you won't see any winning any matches these days;)
 
Dennis,
Let me know when you want to sell your pre64 Mod 70s and also where these are located for that money. Ain't none in Texas.
Butch
 
Spott3r said:
Hey Bnhpr,

Sell the Ruger and then look at one of these...http://www.snipercentral.com/spstactical.htm
Note: new trigger but Jewel is better. And the price is awesome.


vicvanb equal to Mod70 :rolleyes: vicvanb not equal to Mauser ;)


Come one vic lets see a pic, paaalllleeeeeeaaassssee :eek:

Have fun!

:D:D:D
Click to expand...


I picked up 3 of these in .308, special run from Remington. Looks like the same barrel.

They were $650 out the door from Gander mountain in Houston.

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/XR-100_rangemaster.asp

I put a 6.5-20 monarch on 2 of them, and a leupold 6.5-20 vx3 on 1 of them. They all three shot a single ragged hole group with 168 smk's and 44 grains varget.
 
Butch Lambert said:
vicvanb,
That site is difficult to navigate. I didn't have any luck finding what you are talking about. Let me know when you have another available for $550. It is funny that the custom builders like the pre 64 and the 98 Mausers, but almost all admit that the Rem Mod 30 is a superior quality rifle.
Butch
Click to expand...

I totally agree about the Model 30 as being at the top, but what do you do for bottom metal, you sure have to do something with it as that stamp steel crap is not going to appeal to anyone. No better safety has ever been put on a rifle, period end of story!

I think if the much beloved Mike Walker would have insisted on a good set of bottom metal, Remington would have thrown dirt in WINCHESTER's face, but that's not the reason Remington put out the Model 30 and Mr. Walker did the mods. They were out to unload a bunch of war leftovers. These are of course the later Mod 30 under Mr. Walker's watchful eye.

Why no one has mentioned the fact that the Mausers handle gas better than the, in your face Model 70 pre-64 is a mystery to me?

I love the old Model 70's as much as anybody, but for a rifle that is going to be used for the, mite eat me kind of hunting, give me a tricked out Mauser 98 every time.

For punching paper, forget the above three, you've just got to be kidding yourself. Yes in granddad's day they were competitive, but that was then, this is now.

For the ain't going to eat you kind of hunting, " The Great Pumpkin" has it right on the money.:D
 
Stephen, unfortunetly, quality doesn't always dictate price. Lots of overpriced junk out there. Gunmaker is much better qualified to make a statement on quality of the Mauser against the Mod 70. He has been involved with several hundred of both and has photos if you like. You can pay $5000 for some original Mauser receivers, not because they are better than the $100 Mausers, just more rare and desirable.
Butch
 
Stephen,
What is wrong with shooting a fine custom rifle. I don't have alot of them, but they have all been hunted with except my 458Lott. It is too much rifle for me.
Butch
 
Me????

Stephen Perry said:
Vic
What do call cheap about pre-64 Win Model 70's. The gun is one of the most sought after rifles on the market. You made claims that the Model 98 Mauser is a better made gun, I own both. I'll take my pre-64 Model 70 and my 1980's Model 70's compared to a Mauser anyday. Model 70 also has better calibers. By the way if the Mausers were so superbly made why was I able to buy 3 of them for $50 a piece. I bought them to work on. Not admire.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
Click to expand...

If this was for me (Vic) you have the wrong guy! I didn't say anything you mentioned!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hey, no problem. After a while it all runs together. And at my age I can't remember my last post let alone what was on another thread!
 
I've built quite few rifles on quite a few different actions and can only say some are more appropriate than others for different tasks. A properly built Mauser 98 based rifle (I would include commercial Mauser actions here too) is unbeatable as a serious field rifle. They are simple and well designed. The parts are robust and well thought out. A good Mauser will feed, fire, extract and eject every time. In the unlikely event something breaks, they can be stripped and repaired with a minimum of tools. You can replace the firing pin on your Mauser in the field with no tools. For field use, I even like the military two stage trigger just fine. Mine are set up so the second stage is crisp and breaks at 3lb with minimal overtravel. Just fine for hunting and it's unlikely to ever fail for any reason.
For an accuracy rifle, the Mauser can make a pretty good varminter but it just isn't really the choice for a match rifle. The Pre-64 M70 can work quite well within limitations. I have made some fairly good shooting rifles based on pre-war actions but I don't know that I could make a 1/4 minute rifle. I have not tried to build a pre-war in 6PPC but I have built some 308s. The best was a 1/2 minute rifle on it's best days. In 6.5x55 the same rifle is a 5/8 moa performer at 300 meters. 10 shot groups are usually just under 2". This action is as perfect as I can make it. The threads have been recut. The locking lug seats machined and the receiver faced. The bolt has been faced and the locking lugs trued. I have retro-fitted "bumps" to take the slop out of the rear. By the way, when I say a rifle is a 1/2 minute rifle, it's a REAL 1/2 minute rifle. Not one of those which shoots a 1/2" group anytime the full moon falls on a Tuesday.
A 1965 model (the lowest of the low!) in 6BR is an honest 3/8 moa rifle. 10 shot groups at 300 meters will be right around an inch to an inch and a quarter. This likely has less to do with the action and more to do with the fact that a 6 BR is easier to shoot.
Another M70 push feed is in 308 and will also shoot 3/8. However, a 308 is just plain harder to shoot well; at least for me. Anyone who has shot a full 308 in hunter class will know how easy it is to suddenly shoot an eight for no apparent reason. This rifle is like that. I have shot numerous sub-.3 groups (5 shot)and followed them up with one of .7". Maybe it's just me.
My point is that Winchester M70s of any vintage are capable actions and can be pretty darn good but they are not accuracy actions; not even with considerable modification.
The Remington 700, like it or not, works better. A well built 700 in the proper configuration can be a 1/4 minute rifle. If things go well, it can be even better. This goes doubly for the 40X. It is still possible to build a rifle on a 40X action and get it to shoot under .2. Not in stock condition, perhaps, but with typical truing and tuning it can. This if it is barreled in a suitable caliber, or course. I have a 40X based rifle I built strictly for 300 meter "F" class. This one is a sleeved (stainless sleeve) 40XBR action with a home made bolt. It is barreled with an old Clyde Hart barrel (14 twist) chambered in 308. I have fired 5-5 shot groups at 100 yds and agg'd right at 1/4" with Sierra bullets (very nice conditions, mind you). It is glued into the stock and is really kind of a 1980 style cruiserweight rifle (about 16.5 pounds). I'm quite sure I could get this one to agg around .2 with better bullets and a little effort.
I think the Savage single shot actions have the potential to work nearly as well, maybe just as well, as the 40X actions but in either case, modern custom actions will work much more easily and probably better. This wasn't always the case.
Back in the Seventies custom actions were not always any better than commercial ones. Sometimes they weren't as good. The worst action I ever had in my hands was a custom action. A Shilen DGA, this thing was so crooked, it was impossible to barrel. With the barrel screwed in to contact the receiver, I could stick a .006" feeler guage between the barrel and receiver on one side. To make matters worse, the recoil lug was .0007" thicker on one side. No 40X was this bad! Today's customs are another matter. Nobody dares to make a crooked action and there are more good actions available than ever before. Some, like the Stolles, Stillers, Bats, Farleys and so on, are well known to BR shooters. Some others like the Barnard (New Zealand) and RPA (Great Britain), are not so well known but are of equal quality. The only reason to use a Remington or other commercial action is to say you could and that's not a real good reason!
I still use commercial actions and even reworked military actions but this is more an indication of my obstinance than it is the suitability of these actions. Although I have high hopes for my rebuilt CIL950T, I would have undoubtedly been better off with the Barnard I'm using for a customer's rifle. Regards, Bill.
 
Bill Leeper said:
I've built quite few rifles on quite a few different actions and can only say some are more appropriate than others for different tasks. A properly built Mauser 98 based rifle (I would include commercial Mauser actions here too) is unbeatable as a serious field rifle. They are simple and well designed. The parts are robust and well thought out. A good Mauser will feed, fire, extract and eject every time. In the unlikely event something breaks, they can be stripped and repaired with a minimum of tools. You can replace the firing pin on your Mauser in the field with no tools. For field use, I even like the military two stage trigger just fine. Mine are set up so the second stage is crisp and breaks at 3lb with minimal overtravel. Just fine for hunting and it's unlikely to ever fail for any reason.
For an accuracy rifle, the Mauser can make a pretty good varminter but it just isn't really the choice for a match rifle. The Pre-64 M70 can work quite well within limitations. I have made some fairly good shooting rifles based on pre-war actions but I don't know that I could make a 1/4 minute rifle. I have not tried to build a pre-war in 6PPC but I have built some 308s. The best was a 1/2 minute rifle on it's best days. In 6.5x55 the same rifle is a 5/8 moa performer at 300 meters. 10 shot groups are usually just under 2". This action is as perfect as I can make it. The threads have been recut. The locking lug seats machined and the receiver faced. The bolt has been faced and the locking lugs trued. I have retro-fitted "bumps" to take the slop out of the rear. By the way, when I say a rifle is a 1/2 minute rifle, it's a REAL 1/2 minute rifle. Not one of those which shoots a 1/2" group anytime the full moon falls on a Tuesday.
A 1965 model (the lowest of the low!) in 6BR is an honest 3/8 moa rifle. 10 shot groups at 300 meters will be right around an inch to an inch and a quarter. This likely has less to do with the action and more to do with the fact that a 6 BR is easier to shoot.
Another M70 push feed is in 308 and will also shoot 3/8. However, a 308 is just plain harder to shoot well; at least for me. Anyone who has shot a full 308 in hunter class will know how easy it is to suddenly shoot an eight for no apparent reason. This rifle is like that. I have shot numerous sub-.3 groups (5 shot)and followed them up with one of .7". Maybe it's just me.
My point is that Winchester M70s of any vintage are capable actions and can be pretty darn good but they are not accuracy actions; not even with considerable modification.
The Remington 700, like it or not, works better. A well built 700 in the proper configuration can be a 1/4 minute rifle. If things go well, it can be even better. This goes doubly for the 40X. It is still possible to build a rifle on a 40X action and get it to shoot under .2. Not in stock condition, perhaps, but with typical truing and tuning it can. This if it is barreled in a suitable caliber, or course. I have a 40X based rifle I built strictly for 300 meter "F" class. This one is a sleeved (stainless sleeve) 40XBR action with a home made bolt. It is barreled with an old Clyde Hart barrel (14 twist) chambered in 308. I have fired 5-5 shot groups at 100 yds and agg'd right at 1/4" with Sierra bullets (very nice conditions, mind you). It is glued into the stock and is really kind of a 1980 style cruiserweight rifle (about 16.5 pounds). I'm quite sure I could get this one to agg around .2 with better bullets and a little effort.
I think the Savage single shot actions have the potential to work nearly as well, maybe just as well, as the 40X actions but in either case, modern custom actions will work much more easily and probably better. This wasn't always the case.
Back in the Seventies custom actions were not always any better than commercial ones. Sometimes they weren't as good. The worst action I ever had in my hands was a custom action. A Shilen DGA, this thing was so crooked, it was impossible to barrel. With the barrel screwed in to contact the receiver, I could stick a .006" feeler guage between the barrel and receiver on one side. To make matters worse, the recoil lug was .0007" thicker on one side. No 40X was this bad! Today's customs are another matter. Nobody dares to make a crooked action and there are more good actions available than ever before. Some, like the Stolles, Stillers, Bats, Farleys and so on, are well known to BR shooters. Some others like the Barnard (New Zealand) and RPA (Great Britain), are not so well known but are of equal quality. The only reason to use a Remington or other commercial action is to say you could and that's not a real good reason!
I still use commercial actions and even reworked military actions but this is more an indication of my obstinance than it is the suitability of these actions. Although I have high hopes for my rebuilt CIL950T, I would have undoubtedly been better off with the Barnard I'm using for a customer's rifle. Regards, Bill.
Click to expand...

Very well explained, and thank you for taking the time to compose such a well written history of your experience.

Ben
 
Butch Lambert said:
vicvanb,
I just bought a beautiful Persian 98 Mauser barreled action for $179. I bought a 1909 Argentine Mauser hinged bottom metal from EvilBay for $100, and a Timney trigger for $50. I believe Jim Kobe sells safety conversions for $75. The machine work on the Persian is much better than a Pre64 mod. 70. The metal work on a model 70 cost just the same or more than the Mauser to achieve the same result. Don't get me wrong, I like the mod70. Just don't sell the Mausers short.
Butch
Click to expand...

Where did you find the Persian Mauser?
 
pics???

Stephen Perry said:
Vic
What do call cheap about pre-64 Win Model 70's. The gun is one of the most sought after rifles on the market. You made claims that the Model 98 Mauser is a better made gun, I own both. I'll take my pre-64 Model 70 and my 1980's Model 70's compared to a Mauser anyday. Model 70 also has better calibers. By the way if the Mausers were so superbly made why was I able to buy 3 of them for $50 a piece. I bought them to work on. Not admire.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
Click to expand...

Hey Mr Perry, Let's see some pics of your work as well. It's not real hard to make a Mauser look better than a M70. I guess I get a little tired of people slamming $50 mausers just because they can't do high quality work in them. I show up on this forum to learn something I don't know much about from people that DO. Maybe others should do the same.
gunmaker
 
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