Rate the most popular Custom Actions

P

PPP MMM

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I've seen few and checked none. However, I don't have to look hard to believe, that they all aren't the same.
Material PH17-4, 4340, 4150, 4140, 416 and other.
One piece receiver including the milled scope dovetail and the recoil lug, drilled receiver pin on or a barrel/receiver clamped in recoil lug.
One piece bolt including the handle, screwed on handle, brazed on handle.
Thread tennon diameter/length.
Bolt head solid/floating/extractor/recess depth.
Receiver locking recess/insert (ala Geske in PH17-4 receiver)
Straightness/hardness/smoothness/rigidity/tolerances/finish.
Sear/cocking piece/firing pin fall/weight/travel/spring etc.
Some are obviously better than others.

Shoot well
Peter
 
I don't have seen many, but I've worked on some RPA Quadlite & Quadlock.
They are really first classe actions.
 
You can only go so far.

The truth is, once you get an action that has sufficient strength and is machined truly straight in all criticle areas, there isn't much more that can be done to make one "better than the other".
Sometimes I think that new concepts are brought out for one reason, to give us a good reason to build another Rifle.
One of the current trends is toward more than two lugs, in some disciplines, such as Palma, this is very desireable, since you are laying on the ground and want the least amount of movement as possible. The three lugg Bat is developing a large following in 100-200 yard Benchrest. For shooters who run and gun, (ie, shoot fast), the benefits seem plausable.
Heck, I am still shooting old design Farleys, standard RB-LP with no ejector. I think about building something new all of the time, but I doubt I could come up with anything that really shoots better than what I have now. And, when you think about it, Farleys as old as mine are nothing but glorified Remingtons. The fact that Jim used a cast body is a big plus, (they are very smooth), and combined with that S-7 Tool Steel Bolt, it makes for an action that will last just about forever.
I know you here this alot, but what it really comes down to is personal choice. And, I think we are very fortunate to have as many choices as we do in 2008.........jackie
 
Tolerances..

Jackie,

What would the tolerances be in your mind, for something to equal "truly straight" ?

.05, .005, .0005...

John
 
Depends on your discipline

Short Range BR
Stolle Panda
Bat
Viper

F-Class Open
Take your pick

600-1000 BR
Depending on Caliber, take your pick


I think the term "The Best" when talking about the custom receivers is more about "Your Taste" than anything else, with all other things being equal.
 
I figured you would build your own peter.
and if those tolerances are not good enough you will find a bolt that won't open past that. I'll stick with a good ole 2 lug bat and let them build it like they know how and not nitpick their material choices or methods of machining. they are kind of a proven design just as the other big names are
 
John

In an ideal world, I would consider "zero" as truly straight. But alas, we do not live in an ideal world.
Most custom actions are probably machined on what we call "same set up' operation, in other words, all criticle areas that should run truly straight with each other are all machined without ever breaking down the set-up. That means that the only discrepency will be in the natural runnout of the machine tool, which in todays world, is not much.
I have found that of the three customs that I have personally checked, non showed any runnout that I could detect.
Here is how I check an action. I machine a piece that mimics the barrel tenon, and I lightly tighten the action onto it. I then insert a rod, about 8 inches long, that I have turned previously between centers that is just about a "metal to metal" fit in the bolt way. I then place an indicator on the rod, and see if there is any runnout.
I would consider .002 excellent, that far removed from the registering points, that being the thread and the action face.
Now, if the rod shows more runnout than that, this procedure does not tell be where the problem is. It could be the threads, or the action face. But at least I know that something is not quite correct.
Incidentally, if you check most factory actions using this method, you rarely have to even use an indicator to see the runnout.........jackie
 
The tolerances in straightness?

As a toolmaker by trade working in the die/press/blanking industry for seven years and then working for ten years as an engineering technician on complete lathe, milling machines and precision grinders overhauls I would fined any tolerance in straightness exceeding 0.01mm (0.0003937") as very slopy, especially if taking the size of the action involved into consideration. The materials used and the machining/hardening techniques/sequences don't impress me either.
However it would be impossible to argue that an action/barrel shooting .1" is a bad thing regardless of the tolerances/materials involved.

Shoot well
Peter
 
Peter

Being in the machine shop business myself, I would consider your Tolerances a little tight, but certainly achieveable with todays machines and manufacturing techniques.
I disagree with the statement concerning materials. Sure, you can engineer anything to the "nth" degree, and go way beyong the demands of the job. But in the real world, it is simply money wasted.
4140 and other Chrome Moly Steels have been around for darned near a century. The properties they poccess are still totally adequate for applications such as actions. Modern manufacturing techniques insure steels that are true in alloy content, and clean to the molecular level.
True, the vast majority of action manufacturers have gone to the precipitating hardenning stainless steels simply because you can get very good properties with a single age hardenning proccess, with little distortion to the part. Of course, there are alloys with a higher pedigree, but to what point. The steels used now offer properties that exceed the requirements of the application, plus they will not bankrupt you with tool cost and scrap rates.
You say you are not impressed. But then, you simply work for some one. You are not faced with the every day agonies of trying to produce a top quality product, and make a few dollars at the same time.
Why don't you start your own action making facility?? You can engineer everything way beyond the needed specs, you can use the finest procedures in machining and heat treating, toss every other piece out because you are not impressed, and offer it as "the finest action made". But when you have to charge $2000+ for them, and shooters say "no", because why pay for features that are unwarranted, then you will go broke.
Sure, there will be a specilized clientel that want that which goes way beyond what is simply required for the job at hand, but they are few in number, and you will end up broke anyway
. Every Engineer, Tool and Die Maker, and Machinist has their "dream" design that would be the marvel of the world. But in the end, what you really have to deal with is the realities of the world. .....jackie
 
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And the specialized CNC machinery needed to accomplish those tolerances don't come cheap.

Rich in Ca.
 
Isn't the whole name of the game to have the absolute best in equipment, and to be one up on the guy on the bench next to you? Thats how the sport evolved wasnt it? to find a way to eek out the tiny smigeon of extra accuracy? Just a little straighter, a little stronger, and so on?

Jackie is absolutely right from a business perspective. You have to sell to the masses, what the masses want at a price the masses are willing to pay, with enough markup that you can not only break even, but that you can make a profit, or no matter how good your product is, you will be bankrupt. (note: Benchrest shooters are no exception to the masses rule, they just make up a much smaller masses then say, 10-22s at tin cans shooters)

Make a better mousetrap for your self, and if it truly performs better then a off the shelf mousetrap, and people start begging you for one just like it, then come up with a price that both you and your would be buyer can be satified with. If you can quit what your doing at present to earn a living, and you can make more money, not just in the short term, but in the long term, have at it. Its the American way.
 
Jackie you didn't say anything that's not true

Everything what you've said is exactly as it's in the real World. As I don't have the slightest intention to shoot in any competition I have no need for an action that's made out of the best materials/specifications and trued to zero. As there are much easier ways how to make good money, I haven't been in the engineering business for many years. As you've said everything is a compromise between quality and cost, one can't really blame a custom action manufacturer for not making everything out of the best and to "zero" runouts without going broke. For a compromise that has to be made somewhere, the custom action runouts are about as good as they need to be. (Judging by what I read, as I've never had the opportunity to check one myself).
I supose that working for too long in the indrustry where maximum tolerances of 0.005mm (0.0001968") were the norm of every day work doesn't help. Accuracy and exactness is addictive for life, the same goes for the hardness and the materials. The use of a maraging steel in the zinc die casting industry replacing the previously used tool steel equivalent to H13 lifted the production from 30 000 to 1 200 000 shots per a nozzle. The cost of the steel about 14 times higher, the return of castings per one nozzle 40 times higher.
Big win for the casting company, an absolute disaster for the toolmaker. The toolmaker missed on the 39 nozzles that were no longer needed.

Shoot well
Peter
 
Peter, I agree with everything Jackie said but will add something else that has been somewhat overlooked here: there's more to an action than straightness or materials. Like in most consumer products, from cars on down to blenders, special features are a key component in attracting someone to a particular action.

Think about some of the action features we see offered: left bolt, right bolt, port sides, twin ports, drop port, ejector, no ejector, two lug, three lug, four lug, flat botton, round bottom, recoil lug, no recoil lug, stainless, chrome moly, bolt bumps, bolt fluting, Rem. type trigger, Anschutz trigger mounting, changeable bolt heads, choice of barrel tenon - need I go on?

Today's custom actions from the well known makers are straight and strong, the choice often boils down to which one offers the set of features that suit the buyer's needs, desires and budget. And lets not forget one intangible "feature" that sells a lot of actions: a hard earned reputation for quality and performance.

German Salazar
 
Nesika Bay

has an enticing history.
A friend in New Zealand says his Nesika action is so smooth.
The use of a particular alloy. CNC manufactured by guys who know what they were doing...

German says,".. a hard earned reputation for quality and performance."

That is exactly what we are all about...even Peter in his fruit-cake way.
(Okay, I'm a fruit-cake too.)

Thanks, German.

:D
 
Perverted answeres,,,,,,,Lost direction

Guys, I found it quiet funny to read some of your replies.
I didn't ask anywhere, how expensive is to make a "totaly straight" action, nor how expensive is to buy CNCs to make these actions. It's not about me what and how I can make a straight action either.
My question was, to find out what do you shoot and what you like and possibly why so.
Same question, different product:
If it was a Moto forum and a chap like me would ask; "Rate most popular High performance cars/motorbikes" based on a engine output/torque/handling/breaking/cornering/roll/dive/break disk size/number of callipers/weight, etc. I don't think that he would get a single reply how expensive or how hard it would be for a company or one to make these better without going broke. I'm also sure that every high performance car/bike has number of shortcomings that spoil the otherwise foultless performance. Is a 400K$ /400KW Lamborgini perfectly adequite? Absolutely. Is it an absolutely perfect car, where nothing can be improved upon? Absolutely not.

Shoot well
Peter
 
thank god for research sites huh?:D
I just don't understand why somebody who don't shoot, has no intention of shooting, never seen what we talk about and all that comes on here first telling a bunch of american machinists and shooters why they should convert to the far superior metric system and how their actions and machining skills are in question but he thinks it's okay to file an action lug which he himself has never done:confused:
this is just beyond me. I don't go to the car websites and tell folks how to build race motors even tho I may know a little bit about it.... wow is all I can say
 
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