Range report on 1 in 14 twist 25/06

M

murphy

Guest
My tests on the sporter weight Mark X mauser are nearly complete and here are my findings and conclusions. For what ever reason this rifle was one of the most difficult rifle and caliber combinations that I have worked on. I did get it's measure in the end however, and the results are pretty good I think for a rifle with a light sporter profile barrel. 3 shot hundred yard groups with 75g Sierra and 61g of Reloder 22 are routinely under 1/2". 100g Sierra pro hunter shoot about the same as the 75's and maybe a little better, with 55g of H4831. Rifle did not like 87g Sierra Varminters but eventually I did get the groups down to about .75". When I purchased this rifle I thought of it as just being a glorifyed .270 W. It turns out that the 25/06 behaves nothing like a 270 at least not this one. Tried W760 and results were poor, H4350 was worse with groups around the 2" to 3" mark. Even with 75g bullets, this rifle needs big charges H4831 or Reloder 22. Extreme primer sensitivity is another of its quirks with some loads shooting well with Rem 9 1/2 and others needing CCI 250 mag. WLR and FED210 give groups that look like buck shot. Am I describing a normal 25/06 or is this one unusual? :confused:
 
Murphy.......

As I read this a couple of questions came to mind:

What size sporter barrel does your rifle have and what length?

I shoot a lot of lighter calibers and when I started working with a 25/06, recoil changed things, because there is a lot of recoil with this cartridge.

It became obvious to me that the amount of time that the bullet is in the barrel is critical for my bag techniques, grip on the gun, etc.

I had a muzzle break added to my sporter and instantly my groups were cut in half as the recoil became the amount of a 22/250.

When shooting these heavy kickers, the amount that the muzzle comes up off the front bag is critical to control.

Sporter barrels are another entire can of worms to talk about when it comes to extreme accuracy.

A good benchrest gun builder friend of mine also builds a lot of long range hunting rifles. He prefers that his clients have a fluted #5 contour or a #4 in the very least if they want extreme accuracy. As the barrel dia goes down in size, so does the size of the groups increase. There are of course exceptions to this rule, but it is a good standard to go buy.

A combo of Sporter barrel, 14 twist, and heavy recoil has you in a quandry as to the results.

Did you try Speer Bullets? My Rem 700 prefers the 100g Speer BTSP over the noslers and sierra bullets hands down. Your gun may love the 87g Speers.

Good luck and let us know how this project develops...very interesting!
 
To keithcandler

Here are some of my rifles dimensions. 24" barrel, weight all up with scope 8lb 12oz, diameter of barrel at muzzle .556", at half way mark .782". Can't get a measurement at reinforce because of low mounted scope but action has normal M98 proportions. Barrel looks lighter than my idea of a #4 profile so I guess it is a #3. Barrel heating is a problem here with abient temp. running at around 85 degrees farenheit at present. I have my own rifle range, with a semi sound proof room and a fan blowing on the barrel to help cool things down. I don't let it cool entirely between shots, but just enough that I can lay my hand on the barrel and it feels comfortable. I generally shoot at twilight so conditions are pretty good and I use flags but hardly need them. My results are very consistent so I think my technique must be ok, and while recoil is certainly a factor, I can look through the muzzle flame and still see the x hairs on the target before things go blank.Thanks for the advice on the 87g Speers, it is always handy to learn about good components. Next I plan to do some chronograph tests and a 5 shot group with the 75g Sierras. I have a 270 that does well with 90g Sierras so it might be interesting to shoot one rifle against the other. Reguards Murphy.
 
Murph......

muzzle climb is certainly a factor in your groups. Put some grip on the forearm, but don't let your finger touch the barrel.

Play with bullet jump.
 
To keithcandler.

Will definately modify my sandbag technique as you have described, even my best groups seem to have a bit of vertical stringing in them. Bullet jump is abosutely critical in this particular rifle. The 100 grainers need to be 40 thou off the lands and the 87g and 75g, 3 times that distance. Put them anywhere else and this rifle is very unforgiving. Did some chronograph testing yesterday and it turns out that my loads are very mild so they should be easy on the rifle and cases and still get the job done. Here are my results:- 100g Sierra Pro Hunter 55g H4831 Rem9 1/2 3,095 fps. 87g Sierra Varminter 59g H4831 CCI250 Mag 3,240 fps. 75g Sierra Varminter 61g Reloder22 3,403 fps. Chronographs are great little gadgets, First up we think we have a fire breathing monster and it turns out to be just a 243 in wolves clothing.:D
 
25-06

Murphy-

Those loads are very mild for 25-06. In most cases they will get the job done but not utilizing the rifles potential. I have reched the same velocity that you load the 25-06 with the 100 gr Sierra (that is 3100 fps) from an improved .25 BR using only 2/3 of the powder you use. With the 75 gr Sierra you can shoot 25-06 at almost 4000 fps if it is of interest to you.
 
To .25shooter.

.25shooter said:
Murphy-

Those loads are very mild for 25-06. In most cases they will get the job done but not utilizing the rifles potential. I have reched the same velocity that you load the 25-06 with the 100 gr Sierra (that is 3100 fps) from an improved .25 BR using only 2/3 of the powder you use. With the 75 gr Sierra you can shoot 25-06 at almost 4000 fps if it is of interest to you.
Click to expand...
Getting more preformance out of my 25/06 is of a great deal of intrest to me and with the 1 turn in 14" barrel one would think that it has the potential to be a very fast rifle indeed. I think that I may have got the cart before the horse in using my chronograph last instead of first up. Powder choice is a little limited around here but I can get Winchester ball powders, most Hodgson types and the Reloder series, Vitavori is avaliable but not close handy. What powder would you recommend with the light bullets? Thanks you again for your help, this rifle and caliber is without a doubt the most challenging of reloading projects.
 
25-06

Murphy-

I have the same problem as you in that I do not have access to all powders I would like. Lately Vihtavouri has been the only powder available on a regular basis here in Iceland so i have consentrated on using that, because as you know it can be very frustrating having worked up a load you like and have to drop it because you cant get the same powder again. On the other hand I dont feel that I am much handicapped as the Vihtavouri line covers all different needs and different cartridges from 22 hornet with N-120 and up to .300 RUM with N-170
I am sure other manufaturer like Hodgon and more do that also.

For 25-06 there are three powders from Vihtavouri that can be used
N-150 N-160 and N-165. The N-150 and N160 should give max vel with the 75gr. bullet, the N-160 and N-165 should give max velocity with the 120 gr bullet. Since you dont have to consider the 120 gr because of the 1:14 twist I would buy N-160 and try that. Starting load for the 100 gr bullet with N-160 should be around 50gr. You would probably end at around 55 gr. After having found out your max load with the 100 gr you can use that as a very safe starting load for the 75 gr.

A friend of mine uses N-165 with the 100 gr bullet but he is runs out of space at about the same time he is at the pressure max. He uses 59 gr of N-165 but has shot 60 gr. Velocity is 3400 fps. THESE ARE HOT LOADS AND SHOULD ONLY BE USED AFTER STARTING 5 GR. LOWER AND WORKED UP ONE GR. AT THE TIME.

I have not loaded 25-06 myself for some 10 years. I do have 25-06 AI. For that cartridge I can reach top velocity with 100 gr bullet with either Vihtavouri N-160 or N165. Velocity is 3600 fps.

I am talking about 26-27 inch long barrels so you should get about 100 fps less from your 24 inch barrel.

Here is a link to Vihtavouri loading data, it is not good but safe for starting references. For an example they advice 50 gr of N-160 as a starting point for the 100 gr and 48,6 gr as a starting point for 87 gr.
http://www.lapua.com/fileadmin/user_upload/Relodata/Rifle/.25-06Remington.jpg

Have fun
 
To 25shooter.

Have photo copied the information you have given me and if I am unsuccesful with the more readily avaliable Hodgon powders, will give it a try. Yesterday I loaded up some 75g Sierras(Can't get V Max at present), with ADI 2209 which is what the Americans call H4350. I have progressed up in 1/2 grain increments and will be shooting them over the chronograph and watching very carefully for signs of pressure. If I can get the speed out of them, will tune them for accuracy buy searching for a favourable seating depth and trying different primers. Will let you know what happens, and by the way, I hear that the girls are very friendly in Iceland.:cool:
 
Murphy

Been watching your progress on this project, although I have never encountered a 1 in 14 twist on a 25.06 have been shooting the caliber for a number of years. I would speed up the powder, think in the range of IMR4895, varget and in that general area of powder burn rates for the 75 to 87 gr. Save the RE22 for the 100 gr.
The 25.06 in my endeavors has never responded to compressed powder charges. I have never had to use a mag primer, and still get good velocitys for the weight of bullet. Had a few 75s blow up right out the barrel.
I have found that the 25 likes to have a powder charge that fills the case to about 90 to 95 % of the case capacity. Your bullet jump figures for the caliber correspond to what I have also found to work the best for me. Its a beauty of a round, but it really shines in the 115 to 120 grain area, otherwise for a varmint round it really is too much of a good thing.

DR
 
To DR4NRA

Your comments and advice is always welcome, May eventually re barrel or trade on another 25/06 but this is a pretty rifle with a nice trigger, so for the present I will keep experimenting. May get on to my range this afternoon to chronograph some loads, but will have to mow first. It's summer here and there is this long spiky grass that grows up in front of my target frames.:eek:
 
25-06

Murphy-

Like DR says Reloader 22 is too slow for at least the 75 gr bullet in 25-06. H4350 is much better in that regard. There is no reason Hodgdon shouldnt work if the correct burning rate is used. If you are not satisfied with H-4350 you could try H-414. I have had very good result with H-414 with 100 gr bullet in a 25-08 AI (3300 fps). With the 75 gr bullet it might work well in a 25-06 also. Come to think of it Murphy I think you are right, I have indeed met a few friendly girls here in Iceland through the years.:D
 
To 25shooter.

Did some chronograph tests with H4350 yesterday and here are the results:- 75g Sierra Rem 9 1/2 primer Chinese cases seating depth 78mm 58.5g H4350 3586fps. 59g 3641fps. 59.5g 3690fps. 60g 3728fps 60.5g 3747fps. All of these loads are safe in my rifle but with the last two the velocity gain was modest and with 60.5g, had just a very sligh case of sticky bolt lift. Have chosen 59.5g load as the one to test for accuracy. Thanks for telling me about the females, guns are better, they get us into less trouble.:eek:
 
25-06

Thanks for telling me about the females, guns are better, they get us into less trouble.

Well at least one can pick the time his gun goes off :eek:
 
To .25shooter

My downfall has been my very light trigger. Did some more Chrono tests yesterday, this time with 100g bullets and Rem 9 1/2 primers here are the results :- 56g H4831 3090fps 57g H4831 3223fps 58g H4831 3279 fps. Had no problems with pressure and could have gone further, but the deer around here are fairly easy to kill so I think that 3279fps will be plenty. Thanks again for your help and support, reguards Murphy.:D
 
25-06

I have also noticed that reindeers are not all that hard to kill and they dont have it in them either to attack if wounded :D No deer will ever have any preferences either way to be shot with 100 gr bullet at 3300 fps or 3500 fps. Just use the load you are comfortable with. Regards Bergur
 
To 25shooter.

Thanks again Bergur for all your help and I am sure we will meet again on this forum. Reguards Murphy.:D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top