proper primer ignition

A

alinwa

oft dis'd member
So I've heard a lot about "proper ignition".....

For many years I thought that "proper ignition" must be tied to Extreme Spread, that proper ignition is key to consistent velocity.

new spring
different spring
better spring
polish the pin
polish the bolt
trigger timing
striker fall
firing pin shape
different primers
flash holes
primer pockets
depth of seat
depth of crush
shape of primer seat

etc etc etc

But in the last 6-8yrs I've gotten my velocity dialed, my ES down into single digits another way and I haven't even thought about primer ignition....... thought I've had the whole consistency thing licked.....

So I'm asking....

Is it possible/probable that even with very low extreme spread AND a centered-up tune that primers can still affect accuracy??



And if so, any thoughts as to HOW???
 
Velocity/Primer effect?

Assumption
The less time a bullet spends getting to the target the less effect the wind will have on the bullet.
If some primers are "Hotter" than others they would burn the powder faster creating more pressure on the bullet which translates to increased bullet speed.
If your case is filled to maximum of powder one way to increase speed is increase the powder burn rate by starting a "Hotter Fire"(Primer).

I'm not familiar with primer burn rate tables so don't have a recommendation

BUT
I'm seeing some CCI--BR4 primers now listed on equipment lists from some very good shooters.
They are about 50% more costly than F205's so they think they are worth the money.
I'm not sure their reasons BUT could it be they have a "HOTTER FIRE"?

When/where does one reach a point of diminishing returns and loss of accuracy?

It sounds like you have your gun shooting great.
Probably need to change 2-3 things before the match!!!!!!

CLP
 
Last edited:
C.L. Peterson said:
Assumption
The less time a bullet spends getting to the target the less effect the wind will have on the bullet.
If some primers are "Hotter" than others they would burn the powder faster creating more pressure on the bullet which translates to increased bullet speed.
If your case is filled to maximum of powder one way to increase speed is increase the powder burn rate by starting a "Hotter Fire"(Primer).

I'm not familiar with primer burn rate tables so don't have a recommendation

BUT
I'm seeing some CCI--BR4 primers now listed on equipment lists from some very good shooters.
They are about 50% more costly than F205's so they think they are worth the money.
I'm not sure their reasons BUT could it be they have a "HOTTER FIRE"?

When/where does one reach a point of diminishing returns and loss of accuracy?

It sounds like you have your gun shooting great.
Probably need to change 2-3 things before the match!!!!!!

CLP
Click to expand...

I love it, when I'm, "40 years ahead of the curve! :p;)RG
 
alinwa said:
So I've heard a lot about "proper ignition".....

For many years I thought that "proper ignition" must be tied to Extreme Spread, that proper ignition is key to consistent velocity.

new spring
different spring
better spring
polish the pin
polish the bolt
trigger timing
striker fall
firing pin shape
different primers
flash holes
primer pockets
depth of seat
depth of crush
shape of primer seat

etc etc etc

But in the last 6-8yrs I've gotten my velocity dialed, my ES down into single digits another way and I haven't even thought about primer ignition....... thought I've had the whole consistency thing licked.....

So I'm asking....

Is it possible/probable that even with very low extreme spread AND a centered-up tune that primers can still affect accuracy??



And if so, any thoughts as to HOW???
Click to expand...


Lol! All of it matters..Once everything about the gun and load are right..and the barrel likes what it's being fed...then it's about the barrel being at the right place when the bullet reaches the crown. Seriously, and that changes. Timing becomes everything at that point and not just ignition timing. Weakest link is all ya got.

Why do I get the feeling.. like you were asking a question that you know the answer to? :)
 
mwezell said:
Why do I get the feeling.. like you were asking a question that you know the answer to? :)
Click to expand...

Because a lot of great shooters, better and much more experienced shooters than me give great credence to primers.

I do not know if any of them weigh to the kernel of powder which Is how I easily get ES down in the toilet, and WITH ES down in the toilet, I've never had "bad primers" where it didn't work.

And then you've got a TON of experienced guys who state as fact that "ES don't mean nuttin!"

Me, I'm all about "The Mechanism".... as in WHY could it make a difference?

I remember when Jim Borden and Doc Jackson and Harold Vaughn and some others set out to quantify "tuning"...... and they DID, and coined the term "sine wave tuning"...... cuz that's what it WAS :) ...... and they showed the mechanism.

I'm just wondering if I still need to mess with primers.

I thought I was dialed ;)

But I wonder
 
alinwa said:
Because a lot of great shooters, better and much more experienced shooters than me give great credence to primers.

I do not know if any of them weigh to the kernel of powder which Is how I easily get ES down in the toilet, and WITH ES down in the toilet, I've never had "bad primers" where it didn't work.

And then you've got a TON of experienced guys who state as fact that "ES don't mean nuttin!"

Me, I'm all about "The Mechanism".... as in WHY could it make a difference?

I remember when Jim Borden and Doc Jackson and Harold Vaughn and some others set out to quantify "tuning"...... and they DID, and coined the term "sine wave tuning"...... cuz that's what it WAS :) ...... and they showed the mechanism.

I'm just wondering if I still need to mess with primers.

I thought I was dialed ;)

But I wonder
Click to expand...


Proper Primer ignition, most of the time…..

For the basic Mechanism / Function to work you need 3 primary ingredients; fuel, oxidizer and the stimulus of a blow (as you have listed). If you check out the MSDS’s of the different primer manufactures you will find a long and varied list of Primary Explosives, High Explosives, Fast Fuels, Slow Fuels, Oxidizers and Sensitizers. Mostly tailored by specific uses and most containing one or more types of lead.

Temperature Sensitivity; barrel, powder and primer work as one system and they all count.

I think if you have found the right combination stick with it… I also think when it comes to competition and match time restraints all bets are off as to ES and loading to one kernel of powder. And that is where the best shooters shine; experience.

BR
Ken
 
I am a single shot plainbase cast bullet competitor and my rifle has an adjustable hammer spring. I have found having the right hammer spring tension has been of some help. To light or to heavy it just doesn't seem to like but there is a sweet spot that it does seem to like allot.
 
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