Projectile specific accuracy.

M

murphy

Guest
Recently at an arms fair I was able to purchase 4 boxes of Hornady projectiles at a very low price. 200 Hornady 52g BTHP#2249 and 200 Hornady SX50g to be precise. The 52g Hornady match were loaded into Winchester 220 Swift cases with Rem 9 1/2 primers and a fairly stiff load of Varget powder. Powder charge was kept constant but seating depth moved in 1mm (40thou) intervals for a c.o.l of 68mm, 69mm, 70mm, and 71mm. Results out of my standard Ruger MK2 220 Swift with 6.5 to 20 Leupold VX3 scope at 100yds were as follows. :-68mm 3shots .301", 69mm .351", 70mm .805" 71mm .471. Next I returned to my private range with 5 Hornady BT Match loaded to the 68mm recipe and 5 SX loaded the same and 2 warmers. Fired the warmers then the 5 Hornady match, and last of all the Hornady SX. The BT Match went .434" and the SX .815. My rifle has shot sub 1/2" groups before , but never with great frequency. Now that it has just put 14 out of 17 shots into better than 1/2", it seems that the key to the puzzle may be projectile related. If I were to put together a custom 220 swift rifle how much better would it be? Or should I hang on to the Ruger?:D
 
Keep it

That's good groups for a factory gun. Now then ,getting a new barrel may-may not get you better groups with those same loads. As always each barrel is different in what it likes and dislikes.
 
To Roger T.

Was thinking about going the whole Hog. Trued Remington action Dan Leija barrel and all the clever things that a good gunsmith can do. Trouble is that I live 1 1/2 hours drive from the nearest big public rifle range and don't know anyone when I get there. So am unable to guage the preformance of my equiptment against that of others.:) We do have a local shooting club of which I am a member but the patrons are mostly pistol shooters or have cut down military Enfields that they use for deer hunting, so as you see, I don't get to see much refinement.:eek:
 
Ruger, seating depth

Ruger makes a solid rifle, but has 2 problems: 1) Not many aftermarket options, and 2) a long throat.

#2 brings up a question; you mention seating deeper in 0.040" increments, but you didn't mention where you started in relation to the lands. Being a Ruger and knowing the bullets you mentioned I'm sure you were a good distance off the lands to start with. My .224 caliber rifles with uncoated bullets seem to prefer a 0.015" jump to the lands and I vary that in increments of 0.003". Magazine length sometimes dictates otherwise. 0.040" changes in seating depth can produce pressure rapidly.

I believe your twist is 1:14(?), which is excellent for the bullets you loaded.

If you want a shooter, get a Remington and have it blueprinted or buy a custom Remington clone for about the same price (as Remington action + blueprinting) and put on a barrel throated for your bullets. Savage would also be a consideration.

The only way to have control over everything in a rifle is to build it they way it should be, and I know that i$n't an option over everyone. My rifles are determined by budget. nhk
 
If I may, changing seating depth by increments of .040" my be part of your problem. I think you need a whole new load workup procedure. The most efficient way to do this is to load at the range, which your distance to the range also favors. As to your barrel and rifle, if it can put three shots into a third of an inch the rifle has good potential, for a factory rifle.
 
You might try partial length resizing of the fired brass. This will keep the case and part of the neck more fully filling the chamber, while providing better alignment of the bullet to the bore. Adjust the die, say, to stop about 0.100" short of camover. You will still need to do load development.

You might be pleasantly surprised.

Longshooter
 
I'm surprised you were able to get the SX bullets to even hit paper at 220 swift velocities. Those bullets come with a warning not to exceed about 3300 or 3400 fps or they may come apart in flight. That bullet was designed to explode at 223 velocities, hence the SX, super explosive. As far as the 52gr., I have a Ruger 22-250 that purely loves them. Have taken numerous coyotes out to 400 with that bullet. Mine shot best touching the rifling.
 
I was surprised to read about the SX bullets also.
If your rifle is consistantly shooting .5" five shot groups, you understand you will be paying a goodly amount of money for a very small or non-existant reduction in group size. Of course, in the BRC room, ultra accuracy is what it's all about and any reduction in group size is worthwhile.

However, if you're just shooting for fun or in casual competition, only you can decide if it's worth it. A talk with a smith , and it kinda needs to be a smith that specializes in accuracy, can give you an idea of the cost.
 
Murphy

You have the basics of the load your rifle likes. Now it's time to do the SMALL things to improve it (maybe).One thing you don't want to do is TEST the barrel to DEATH (Swifts aren't the easiest on barrels). Do 1 thing at a time seating depth (try .005 thou) between 68-69 mm instead of .04 increments, partial sizeing (as stated above), small powder changes (.02gr) at a time, And lets not forget your SMALL part of the equation HOLD and FLAGS. If your getting 3/8-1/2 groups that's nothing to sneeze at for a factory Ruger. As far as getting another action/barrel put together it may not like the combo you have in this rifle.
 
To nhukehl

What sort of reloading gear are you using? I have great difficulty achieving the tolerences you have mentioned. Even my digital vernier calipers have trouble with incraments of .003." You are right about the long throat in the Ruger. The bullets fall out of the case before they touch the lands so magazine length is more of a consideration. I may be dreaming a bit about the custom rifle but we all need to have goals. Yote: Have only fired 5 SX bullets so far in the Swift and they all held together. Will fire some more today to try and get better accuracy. How do the 52g Match go on coyotes, do you get expansion? Roger T, Your advice makes a lot of sense. I am fortunate to have my own range and shoot mostly at twilight so conditions are pretty good. What I really need to know without starting a bragging competition is the results other people are getting out of their Swifts and 22/250s so that I know where to draw the line in the sand with my load development. If I were to get a custom rifle I would not worry about my existing load but would go for a tight twist barrel so that I could shoot the 75g Barnes and 65g Sierra BT.:)
 
murphy said:
Was thinking about going the whole Hog. Trued Remington action Dan Leija barrel and all the clever things that a good gunsmith can do. Trouble is that I live 1 1/2 hours drive from the nearest big public rifle range and don't know anyone when I get there. So am unable to guage the preformance of my equiptment against that of others.:) We do have a local shooting club of which I am a member but the patrons are mostly pistol shooters or have cut down military Enfields that they use for deer hunting, so as you see, I don't get to see much refinement.:eek:
Click to expand...

There is good made bullets and bad made bullets. However once they are made it is very difficulty to tell the difference untill you shoot them.
I would not do any major changes to that gun untill the barrel is shot out.
Otherwise it could just end up an expensive make over.
Wait till the barrel starts to loose accuracy and then think about accurising and rebuilding it. If it aint broke don't fix it.
 
Measuring

murphy said:
What sort of reloading gear are you using? I have great difficulty achieving the tolerences you have mentioned. Even my digital vernier calipers have trouble with incraments of .003." You are right about the long throat in the Ruger. The bullets fall out of the case before they touch the lands so magazine length is more of a consideration.
Click to expand...

I use a Stoney Point (Hornady) comparator to measure seating depth and average 10 bullets out of a box to find the lands, then subtract 0.015". I use that dimension as the final comparator length for the bullets seated in a Redding Competition Seating di. I use a dial vernier calipers that measures to 0.001". If I have to load to magazine length I don't worry about varying seating depth, I just crimp the bullet with a Lee factory crimp di and adjust powder to the optimum node.

I also use the Hornady headspace gauge for case length and Redding neck-sizing bushing dies and size the necks 0.002" under loaded diameter. nhk
 
Murphy,

The 52gr. and 53gr. flat base bullets shot extremely well out of my Ruger MkII Target in 22-250. This rifle does not like bullets with long bearing surfaces but the little short pills it shoots fine. I shot many 5 shot groups in the .3's with this bullet though it wouldn't agg that. As far as performance, that little 52 and 53 grain bullet would absolutely explode on coyotes. I couldn't tell the difference in the performance of them verses a ballistic tip. If you are interested in the hides, this is not the bullet to use. I never had a penetration problem with these bullets till I got out to 400 yards but even then got one shot kills. They are running out of gas pretty quickly then. Anything under that I got impressive exit wounds.
 
To nhkuehl

Thanks for the information, I can see that I need to get some better reloading equiptment. If you don't mind me asking, what is your primary rifle and what sort of groups are you getting out of it?:) Yote, Now I know which bullet I will be using on my next crow hunting expedition.:cool:
 
Rifle and accuracy

murphy said:
Thanks for the information, I can see that I need to get some better reloading equiptment. If you don't mind me asking, what is your primary rifle and what sort of groups are you getting out of it?
Click to expand...

My favorite .224 caliber is the .223 Remington and I've had several. I have a Savage 12 BVSS with a 1:9 twist that I shoot 55 gr Nosler Ballistic Tips out of and get consistent sub .5 MOA groups. I also currently have a Remington 700 SA with a 1:12 twist that I shoot 40 gr Nosler Ballistic Tips and 50-55 gr soft tip and HP varmint bullets out of and it is a fairly consistent .5 MOA rifle. When conditions are good and I'm on I can shoot the Savage under .2 MOA and the Remington under .3 MOA; both are factory rifles. I'm a varmint hunter and I kill 80% of what I shoot at. I owe a lot of that to reloading. I don't own an AR, but have shot several and they are more a 1 MOA rifle. nhk
 
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To nhkuehl.

Many thanks nhkuehl, Helpful people like yourself make this forum great reading.:cool:
 
You don't crimp good accurate bullets for a bolt action gun!
That can just screw up the jacket to core fit.
You arange for adequate neck tension to suit the purpose and tha't all you need. Crimping is more for Autos and pistols .
 
Crimping

I'd rather not crimp for a bolt gun, but I do when I have a long throat. I don't go overboard though. nhk
 
My first reloads were roll crimped severely because my mentor set up my seating die that way by mistake. They outshot the non crimped loads I made after reading the die instructions.
This put me on the path of crimping.
It was a long frustrating journey.
I have no doubt crimping can produce some good results especially in a long throated gun like I started with.
In the end I found theres a better way.
I would'nt dream of mutilating my brass in such a fashion anymore.

I could write pages of info on crimping rifle loads. I won't.
What I found was rather simple. Any combination of components that shoots good with a crimp will shoot just as well if not better with just a little more load development. JMO
 
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