Precision Rifleman Magazine July 2016

James A. Kelbly said:
The reasons I hear that short range Br shooting is not growing is most shooters today want to shoot Tactical and Long Range 600 yards plus. Everyone wants to be a sniper!


Just my opinion along with what shooters have told me as well

Jim
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And some of these Wanna Bee Snipers worry me. I DO want them on our side though.

Where I live we have 4 membership ranges all with at least 20 covered benches. Some of the people that show up with their Black Guns and a cell phone remote hung on their ear.... this is why I shoot at one of the 4 private ranges we have. One is to 600 yards the others to 200 yards and with permanent wind flags.

There are certainly enough new and good used BR guns available for immediate ownership. Kelblys had 8-10 on just that one rack at the Super Shoot . Now then,if you want a DS build with a certain custom stock, a certain custom action, with 5 spare barrels, and want it now then now I agree with Tony, otherwise Jim is correct.

.
 
zippy06 said:
Kelly I meant no disparagement or whatever.
If that picture is you? Nice picture. Night Force and Marsh have a good marketing crew/photo guy.
That picture should sell a bunch.
Sounds like you like your Marsh.
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Tim
No the rifle in the pictures was not mine (I wish it was). I am often reminded by people that know me well that my sense of humor most of the time is somewhat difficult to detect. I believe there were several pictures of the same rifle that was on the cover of PR magazine on the picture portfolio Berger furnished for the 2016 Cactus classic. I was in my own way trying to "crack a joke" . I do very much like my Marsh LV and am looking forward to receiving my Marsh HV . Lets all stick together .
Thanks
Kelly Ellis
 
My 2 cents worth

Why is short range BR dying. I look at the numbers that compete at a medium size shoot in the USA and think it's thriving over there so why is it dying here in Oz. If the number we had at the last nationals were to sign on in the US the organizers would think what has happened. So some of the issue is perspective.

I estimate the average age of the BR shooter here is in the mid to late 50's. Could be older ? Why ? Because it's around this time of their lives before the nest is empty, the mortgage gone and there is some spare cash around. But not so much you can go berserk. Then the time constraints because most are still working or only semi retired. We have now narrowed the field quite a bit. Of those that fall into this category only a percentage will be interested in short range BR. Health issues may also be part of not being able to travel far to matches.

Then there is us. We don't do a very good job of promoting the sport. The guys who shoot shot guns in various disciplines will run open days to promote the sport and allow new shooters have a go. Don't think I have ever seen a promo like that here in BR. Not even a call for new shooters in the various shooting magazines. Although I am not sure what legal requirements are involved but a spot on the radio advertising for new recruits might be possible. Then there is some of what TB says comes into play. Then there is the normal fluctuations in numbers that happen in any type of sporting club. At the moment it may be a normal low.

Someone once told me issues like this are as complex as a plane crash. It's never just one or two things that cause it. It usually a multitude of things that happen in the right sequence at the right time. Is there a cure. Probably but it will come from a variety of people.
 
I have been shooting Benchrest and running matches a long time

and I now think life, mostly gets in the way of folks and they move off to something else. One of the things that discourages some is the person who has, as Wilbur once said "enough money to burn a wet mule", outspend and those who are so driven to win at all costs. The ones with the wet mule money are often the driven ones. It does nothing FOR the sport. There are few people with the interest to shoot Benchrest and overwhelming them certainly isn't the way to go forward. Many other shooting sports have a classification system and that could be a way to keep people in, a points system or the like. Something new should be tried, IMHO. It wouldn't cost much, if anything to have , say three levels of ability in Benchrest, all driven by performance, like the other sports do. Certificates are inexpensive and can be printed right at the range off one's laptop or I pad, I think. The Macho attitude in Benchrest is not a good thing.

I raced Dirt Bikes for years and those sports all have classifications, driven by performance. All could shoot together and simply be separated by past performance in their classification. Yeah, it will be a bit of work to set up but once done, be business as usual. I think it worth a try.

Me, I had a long talk with myself after winning the big wood one year and, for me, the big wood was not worth the time and money that went into it. For me it's experiencing the total game and seeing friends and old friends on some sort of frequency. I am about over traveling far to the big shoots and am content to stay closer to home. We were able to schedule a bunch of matches at our range this year so that we do not have to travel. Our shooter numbers are off what they were two years ago but we still get enough for decent competition.

Can I see an end to it all, yes I can. I've been at it since the early 90's and although I still enjoy it, I enjoy my lathe and new mill nearly as much.

Pete
 
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I dont know why I'm wasting my time typing as I have posted and replied to this subject many times.

Pete is right its a whole package deal, the friendship of other shooters is priceless. And it does take folks with a passion and drive to win to play this game. So many are discouraged early on and a class system would have saved the game years ago but now in my opinion its to late but it wouldn't hurt to try. I too have done the dirt bike thing and have also been classified in NRA smallbore shooting.The systems in both allow folks to see some success, which encourages them to try and move up the ladder.. There will always be just a few "sandbaggers" that have no desire to move up and will stay if on purpose in a class they can win some wood in, but those wanting to move up can and will.......LW
 
Benchrest group shooting does not fall into that category. There are not that many clubs that want to prepare for a group shoot as it's somewhat difficult. Secondly, folks that shoot Savages are simply not going to travel 500 miles to shoot a match regardless of the "format". It is, however, a viable format but if folks are going to shoot less than "Benchrest" rifles why not shoot score....and there seems to be plenty of those type matches. There's a UBR match really close to me and even closer to Nashville, TN. Why the match is not limited is anybody's guess...but it's not and doesn't need to be because there's not that many that choose to attend.

I guess the short of it is that folks will attend most anything if they want to and can afford it. "Want to" seems to be the larger factor but not by much.

Once upon a time, we were in a heated argument concerning how to handle the attendance in the Southeast Region. The ranges didn't have enough benches to accommodate the attendance. While we argued, gas prices went up and took care of it entirely....ENTIRELY!
 
Wilbur, one of the problems, (in my opinion), is the Two Gun Format.
Most Varmint for Score Matches are one day affairs, you drive over, shoot a Grand Agg, and go home. No driving all night Friday, shooting all day Saturday and Sunday, and driving back, get a few hours sleep, and having to be back at work Monday.

Big matches, such as the Super Shoot, Nationals, and National Qualifiers, where many shooters plan vacations around, will still have good attendance. But it's the week end Region Matches that are suffering in attendance. Matches that used to have three full relays on a 25 Bench Range now won't even fill one relay.

Many purely group shooters blame Varmint for Score. Since I shoot both, I feel that the biggest problem is not the shooters, but the clubs. Group Matches are much more difficult to put on, mainly because of the moving backer system that must be in place. Add to that the demands that a club must have the latest computer program with sophisticated read outs compel many clubs to simply say, "to heck with it".

We were over in Lake Charles shooting Varmint for Score today. Heck, Mike doesn't even have a computer. He simply writes the scores down on a sheet. Simple.

Just hang some targets and shoot. Have a good time, add em up to see who wins, and go home.
 
As a new shooter in Benchrest I would like to chime in.

I have a family member who has been a Benchrest shooter for over 20 years, so I was always at least partially exposed to the sport. This year I had the opportunity to start shooting with him and took the plunge.

It became very clear very quickly that FEW people outside of the sport know what Benchrest shooting is. I am referring to friends/family that are very aware of F-Class/PRS style competitions, as well as IPSC/IDPA/3 Gun, but who have no idea what Benchrest shooting is.

Do a search on youtube for any of the different styles of competition that I mention, you will get lots of results, matches, gear reports, channels focused on helping people get started in the sport (IDPA, IPSC, F Class, PRS, 3 Gun, etc).

I think that having MORE information available on the web would very much benefit Benchrest. I do not mean that the websites currently dedicated to Benchrest are anything short of great (they are pretty great in my opinion), instead I look at a youtube channel like The Power Factor Show https://www.youtube.com/user/powerfactorshow/videos and think that something like that but dedicated to Benchrest would do wonders for people who are online searching for more knowledge about the sport. I would encourage you all to check out some of their videos (especially the earliest ones about getting started in the game).

I have been kicking around the idea of doing something like this myself about Benchrest, from a new shooters perspective, for a while now.

Thanks, Josh
 
josh shrum said:
As a new shooter in Benchrest I would like to chime in.

I have a family member who has been a Benchrest shooter for over 20 years, so I was always at least partially exposed to the sport. This year I had the opportunity to start shooting with him and took the plunge.

It became very clear very quickly that FEW people outside of the sport know what Benchrest shooting is. I am referring to friends/family that are very aware of F-Class/PRS style competitions, as well as IPSC/IDPA/3 Gun, but who have no idea what Benchrest shooting is.

Do a search on youtube for any of the different styles of competition that I mention, you will get lots of results, matches, gear reports, channels focused on helping people get started in the sport (IDPA, IPSC, F Class, PRS, 3 Gun, etc).

I think that having MORE information available on the web would very much benefit Benchrest. I do not mean that the websites currently dedicated to Benchrest are anything short of great (they are pretty great in my opinion), instead I look at a youtube channel like The Power Factor Show https://www.youtube.com/user/powerfactorshow/videos and think that something like that but dedicated to Benchrest would do wonders for people who are online searching for more knowledge about the sport. I would encourage you all to check out some of their videos (especially the earliest ones about getting started in the game).

I have been kicking around the idea of doing something like this myself about Benchrest, from a new shooters perspective, for a while now.

Thanks, Josh
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Just my opinion, but the only way you can get the true feel of what is involved in Competitive Benchrest is to attend a Match.

If for any reason, that will dispel many of the ideas and myths that seem to permiated what we do, and are often discussed on this and other Forums.
 
josh shrum said:
As a new shooter in Benchrest I would like to chime in.

I have a family member who has been a Benchrest shooter for over 20 years, so I was always at least partially exposed to the sport. This year I had the opportunity to start shooting with him and took the plunge.

It became very clear very quickly that FEW people outside of the sport know what Benchrest shooting is. I am referring to friends/family that are very aware of F-Class/PRS style competitions, as well as IPSC/IDPA/3 Gun, but who have no idea what Benchrest shooting is.

Do a search on youtube for any of the different styles of competition that I mention, you will get lots of results, matches, gear reports, channels focused on helping people get started in the sport (IDPA, IPSC, F Class, PRS, 3 Gun, etc).

I think that having MORE information available on the web would very much benefit Benchrest. I do not mean that the websites currently dedicated to Benchrest are anything short of great (they are pretty great in my opinion), instead I look at a youtube channel like The Power Factor Show https://www.youtube.com/user/powerfactorshow/videos and think that something like that but dedicated to Benchrest would do wonders for people who are online searching for more knowledge about the sport. I would encourage you all to check out some of their videos (especially the earliest ones about getting started in the game).

I have been kicking around the idea of doing something like this myself about Benchrest, from a new shooters perspective, for a while now.

Thanks, Josh
Click to expand...


This would be a great idea, a lot of younger people seem to do a lot of learning online these days and as you say a LOT of people, who could be interested in Benchrest, know nothing about the sport or that it even exists.

How do you attract people to a sport that they know nothing about?

There were a lot of articles published in Precision Shooting back in the 80's about how to get into Benchrest, and most of the subscribers to PS already knew what BR was, even if they didn't participate. Some who read and subscribed to PS will never shoot BR.
A friend who subscribed to PS is the reason I got into the sport, and I see videos on youtube having the same effect on others, only with the possibility of reaching even more people that have never heard of Benchrest shooting.

The only way to "grow" the sport is to "promote" the sport to those that know nothing about the sport, some will be interested enough to try it.
Those that already "know" about the sport are either participating in the sport or have come into contact with the sport at a range or through someone who participates in the sport. There is only a small percentage of people who know about the sport who will participate in the sport.

One other thing that will help some decide if they want to participate is if there are BR matches happening locally, so that it is easier to participate..........if not most will go and do something else.

Cost isn't the only deciding factor, think about it, I know several people who own mountain bikes that cost more than all my BR gear put together. Some of them admittedly don't have families yet, some do.

It takes a certain person to want to participate in Benchrest....what charateristics are they and how do you attract people with those charateristics?

The larger the audience you advertise to the more chance there is of growing the sport.

Ian
 
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