L
L.G
Guest
Hey guys, could I have your opinions on the 300 ultra mag. as far as accuracy and just overall as a cartridge have heard mixed feelings before.Just curious to what some real pros has to say.thanks
L.G.
Lou Murdica shot one at The NBRSA 1,000 Yard Nationals this year so he must have felt it was a good choice.He has loaned out his wifes 6BR twice and both times it has either won are finished top 5.You wouldn't let a gun like that sit unless you thought the 300 Ultra was very good.
Waterboy
Lou Murdica shot one at The NBRSA 1,000 Yard Nationals this year so he must have felt it was a good choice.He has loaned out his wifes 6BR twice and both times it has either won are finished top 5.You wouldn't let a gun like that sit unless you thought the 300 Ultra was very good.
Waterboy
O
oneflyer
Guest
Would not...........
be my first choice, if you are in a choosing position, for the following reasons.
1. Heavy recoil- if you are concerned about launching projectiles 1000 yards there are a number of rounds that will accomplish the same with less pain.
2. Brass choices are limited and I don't believe that you can form another case to the Ultra.
3. Expense lots of powder to launch the bullet
4. Overbore- more case than you need.
That being said I know of several, not many, that shoot this round. Performance? Depends as much on the 'smith, shooter and reloading practices.
My first choice for a 30 would be the WSM for all of the above reasons.
be my first choice, if you are in a choosing position, for the following reasons.
1. Heavy recoil- if you are concerned about launching projectiles 1000 yards there are a number of rounds that will accomplish the same with less pain.
2. Brass choices are limited and I don't believe that you can form another case to the Ultra.
3. Expense lots of powder to launch the bullet
4. Overbore- more case than you need.
That being said I know of several, not many, that shoot this round. Performance? Depends as much on the 'smith, shooter and reloading practices.
My first choice for a 30 would be the WSM for all of the above reasons.
L
L.G
Guest
Ok thanks for your info, Now I would like to hear from someone who shoots one, what do you have to do in regards of handloading outside of normal procedures also,I would like to know the ultras strong points if any.
Rich De
Member
If there were a whole lot of strong points, you would see a lot of people shooting them...Right???? Just check the equipment lists for the 1,000 yd. matches around the country and see how many are being used? I'm not saying that they DON'T shoot, I'm just saying what "oneflyer" already posted. There are .30 cal cartridges that will shoot alongside or out shoot the Ultra and with a lot less expense and recoil. The same can be said for the shooters who have down sized from the 30's to the 6.5's and then on down to the 6mm's. You don't need some "eargosplittenloudenboomer" to shoot small groups. Thats all
Rich De
Rich De
L.G.
Out here on the westcoast we shoot in alot of switchy winds.We don't get 15mph winds that go the same direction for 20 minutes on end we get a back and forth movement that destroys group sizes.
As far as I know Lou Murdica was the only shooter using the 300 Ultra Mag at the NBRSA 1,000 Yard Nationals and here are his results.
National Championship Rankings For The NBRSA
1) Billy Copelin 5 points
2) Gerald (jerry)Tierney 24 points
3) Kenneth Schroeder 25 points
4) Charles Greer 31 points
5) Barry Bluhm 33 points
6) Greg Wilson) 45 points
7) Robert Hoppe 46 points
8) Lou Murdica 47 points
9) Tommy Johnson 54 points
10) Gary Noble 54 points
Two Gun Group
1) Billy Copelin 6.566
2) Kenneth Schroeder 8.411
3) Barry Bluhm 8.469
4) Tommy Johnson 8.536
5) Gerald Tierney 8.898
6) Charles Greer 8.905
7) Lou Murdica 8.950
8) Robert Hoppe 8.970
9) Peter White 9.805
10) Greg Wilson 10.02
Two Gun Score
1) Billy Copelin 840-8X
2) Charles Greer 819-13X
3) Gerald Tierney 819-12X
4) Dee Tompkins 797-10X
5) Lou Murdica 796-7X
6) Robert Hoppe 790-7X
7) Kenneth Schroeder 789-7X
8) Steven Ikeda 788-3X
9) Barry Bluhm 787-10X
10) Greg Wilson 789-2X
Heavygun Group
1) Billy Copelin 8.522
2) Kenneth Schroeder 8.938
3) Charles Greer 9.031
4) Tommy Johnson 9.384
5) Lou Murdica 9.699
6) Gerald Tierney 9.873
7) Barry Bluhm 10.13
8) Steven Ikeda 10.40
9) George Tompkins 10.46
10) Robert Hoppe 10.60
Heavygun Score
1) Billy Copelin 561-6X
2) Gerald Tierney 549-9X
3) Charles Greer 546-11X
4) George Tompkins 546-4X
5) Robert Hoppe 542-6X
6) Lynn Dragoman 540-10X
7) Lou Murdica 539-6X
8)Steven Ikeda 537-3X
9) Dee Tompkins 530-8X
10) Wally Laursen 520-6X
Lou did very well with the 300 and he can shoot anything he wants at the drop of a hat.He develops his loads in his own tunnel at his home and probaly owns every accuracy action ever made or several of each.I heard he just ordered up 8 new BAT actions for next year and I know he buys 20 barrels at a time.He would be the guy to best answer any of your questions on the 300.If it didn't shoot he wouldn't have used it in my opinion.He also owns the 300 WSM but didn't use it and Don The Pumpkin Nielson just sold his 300 WSM a couple matches ago this year.
I had a top notch gunsmith build me a 300 WSM and it will only get used at 600 yards as the weather out here means the slower bullets even though they are very accurate just don't hang with the 300 Weatherby type cartridges all year long.
Waterboy aka Lynn
Out here on the westcoast we shoot in alot of switchy winds.We don't get 15mph winds that go the same direction for 20 minutes on end we get a back and forth movement that destroys group sizes.
As far as I know Lou Murdica was the only shooter using the 300 Ultra Mag at the NBRSA 1,000 Yard Nationals and here are his results.
National Championship Rankings For The NBRSA
1) Billy Copelin 5 points
2) Gerald (jerry)Tierney 24 points
3) Kenneth Schroeder 25 points
4) Charles Greer 31 points
5) Barry Bluhm 33 points
6) Greg Wilson) 45 points
7) Robert Hoppe 46 points
8) Lou Murdica 47 points
9) Tommy Johnson 54 points
10) Gary Noble 54 points
Two Gun Group
1) Billy Copelin 6.566
2) Kenneth Schroeder 8.411
3) Barry Bluhm 8.469
4) Tommy Johnson 8.536
5) Gerald Tierney 8.898
6) Charles Greer 8.905
7) Lou Murdica 8.950
8) Robert Hoppe 8.970
9) Peter White 9.805
10) Greg Wilson 10.02
Two Gun Score
1) Billy Copelin 840-8X
2) Charles Greer 819-13X
3) Gerald Tierney 819-12X
4) Dee Tompkins 797-10X
5) Lou Murdica 796-7X
6) Robert Hoppe 790-7X
7) Kenneth Schroeder 789-7X
8) Steven Ikeda 788-3X
9) Barry Bluhm 787-10X
10) Greg Wilson 789-2X
Heavygun Group
1) Billy Copelin 8.522
2) Kenneth Schroeder 8.938
3) Charles Greer 9.031
4) Tommy Johnson 9.384
5) Lou Murdica 9.699
6) Gerald Tierney 9.873
7) Barry Bluhm 10.13
8) Steven Ikeda 10.40
9) George Tompkins 10.46
10) Robert Hoppe 10.60
Heavygun Score
1) Billy Copelin 561-6X
2) Gerald Tierney 549-9X
3) Charles Greer 546-11X
4) George Tompkins 546-4X
5) Robert Hoppe 542-6X
6) Lynn Dragoman 540-10X
7) Lou Murdica 539-6X
8)Steven Ikeda 537-3X
9) Dee Tompkins 530-8X
10) Wally Laursen 520-6X
Lou did very well with the 300 and he can shoot anything he wants at the drop of a hat.He develops his loads in his own tunnel at his home and probaly owns every accuracy action ever made or several of each.I heard he just ordered up 8 new BAT actions for next year and I know he buys 20 barrels at a time.He would be the guy to best answer any of your questions on the 300.If it didn't shoot he wouldn't have used it in my opinion.He also owns the 300 WSM but didn't use it and Don The Pumpkin Nielson just sold his 300 WSM a couple matches ago this year.
I had a top notch gunsmith build me a 300 WSM and it will only get used at 600 yards as the weather out here means the slower bullets even though they are very accurate just don't hang with the 300 Weatherby type cartridges all year long.
Waterboy aka Lynn
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oneflyer
Guest
Lynn
I'm a little surprised by your response. I agree with your posts almost 100% of the time. I have to throw a little cold water on your comments about the Ultra case. I don't know Lou Murdica except via his posts on various forums and can't tell you why he sold his WSM. The same can be said for Don Nielson. I have never shot against them or seen them at any of our matches at Williamsport. Let me take issue with some of your statements.
1. The wind blows on the East Coast also and most of the time every which way.
2. Our typical match has about 100 shooters in each class and 160 shooters in each class for our World Open match. This is significant because when I see the results of our year long matches it points out to me the viability of the 300 WSM case.
3. 10 match heavy gun aggregate winner for group- top 3 were 300 WSM's
4. 10 match aggregate for score 4 out of the top 10 were 300 WSM's
5. 10 match aggregate light gun for group- top gun was 300 WSM 4 of the top 10
6. 10 match aggregate for score- top 2 were 300 WSM's 3 of the top 10
7. The Heavy gun winner of the World Open was a 300 WSM.
Maybe giving up on the 300 WSM was premature. I would love to come to Sacramento to shoot sometime. Looks like a great facility.
Oneflyer AKA Frank Grappone
I'm a little surprised by your response. I agree with your posts almost 100% of the time. I have to throw a little cold water on your comments about the Ultra case. I don't know Lou Murdica except via his posts on various forums and can't tell you why he sold his WSM. The same can be said for Don Nielson. I have never shot against them or seen them at any of our matches at Williamsport. Let me take issue with some of your statements.
1. The wind blows on the East Coast also and most of the time every which way.
2. Our typical match has about 100 shooters in each class and 160 shooters in each class for our World Open match. This is significant because when I see the results of our year long matches it points out to me the viability of the 300 WSM case.
3. 10 match heavy gun aggregate winner for group- top 3 were 300 WSM's
4. 10 match aggregate for score 4 out of the top 10 were 300 WSM's
5. 10 match aggregate light gun for group- top gun was 300 WSM 4 of the top 10
6. 10 match aggregate for score- top 2 were 300 WSM's 3 of the top 10
7. The Heavy gun winner of the World Open was a 300 WSM.
Maybe giving up on the 300 WSM was premature. I would love to come to Sacramento to shoot sometime. Looks like a great facility.
Oneflyer AKA Frank Grappone
Oneflyer
Frank we would love for the Williamsport guys to come out here with the 300WSM guns and give our club a try.98% of our shooters won't post here but they do have the internet and have tried just about every combination there is.
The swirling wind we have most of the time out here is why you don't see the 300 WSM more often and you do see the bigger cartridges based off of the 300 Weatherby.
We are located at the base of the Sierra Mountain range that is covered with snow for very long periods of time.You may remember the stories about The Donner Party.We are in the flat and it generaly runs 115 degrees in the summer time meaning the thermals running up the Sierras are terrible here.
Waterboy aka Lynn
P.S.I haven't given up on it just yet but for the present time I will limit it to 600 yards.I am going with a 30-338Lapua shortened up to 95 grains of water for my next build to keep the velocity up and get some better case life.
Frank we would love for the Williamsport guys to come out here with the 300WSM guns and give our club a try.98% of our shooters won't post here but they do have the internet and have tried just about every combination there is.
The swirling wind we have most of the time out here is why you don't see the 300 WSM more often and you do see the bigger cartridges based off of the 300 Weatherby.
We are located at the base of the Sierra Mountain range that is covered with snow for very long periods of time.You may remember the stories about The Donner Party.We are in the flat and it generaly runs 115 degrees in the summer time meaning the thermals running up the Sierras are terrible here.
Waterboy aka Lynn
P.S.I haven't given up on it just yet but for the present time I will limit it to 600 yards.I am going with a 30-338Lapua shortened up to 95 grains of water for my next build to keep the velocity up and get some better case life.
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Rich De
Member
Lynn.......I tried accessing the NBRSA results from 2009 but it only listed the shooters. I could not find the equipment list? The reason being, In all the catagories you listed, Lou Murdica in not higher than 5th. pl. Just curious what the other shooters in front of him were shooting? And the wind thing? As Oneflyer idicated for Williamsport, the same can be said of Hawk's Ridge and the wind.
Rich De
Rich De
Rich De
We don't have an equipment list listed anywhere that I am aware of.Billy Copelin shot a 6Dasher and Jerry Tierney shot a 280 or 280 AI Ken Schroeder shot a 6BR Charles Greer shot a 300 WSM and a 300 Ackley and Barry Bluhm shot a 6X47.
This was the first year we have had a nationals that late in the year and the weather was extremely good for us out here.If you go to www.weatherunderground.com and click on "trip planner" you can put in the range location and the match dates and it will list the weather history for as long as it has been recorded.You can use that as a comparator of the various clubs weather conditions.
The initial intent of my post was not to discourage the new shooter with the 300 Ultra as it does work as has been posted above.If you look in the Sierra reloading manuals they list John Buhay from Pennsylvania as using one in the manual.I realise it is probaly dated but there is nothing wrong with using it.
Ron Tilley(TillRoot1) Don The Pumpkin Nielson Lou Murdica and myself all own them but in our conditions for the Entire Year they are not producing that many wins for us.
If you call Alex Sitman right now as he is going on a hunting trip next week he will tell you I have a 300WSM heavygun sittting in his shop right now for bedding and not a 300 Ultra Mag.I would however in no way discourage L.G. from using one after talking to Lou Murdica who owns both and shot the Ultra to finish in the top 10.Our weather out here just doesn't allow it to shoot with the 300 Acklies at 1,000 yards.
Note that the guy bedding my gun is located in Pennsylvania and my gunsmith Jim Borden is also located in Pennsylvania.I like Pennsylvania and if you recall my earlier posts Williamsport is the only eastcoast venue I want to attend before I croak.
Alot of the stuff you guys do we don't use simply because we don't see the same kind of results as you are getting.We do however try it out first before making up our minds.
We shoot 12 months a year and we shoot 3 targets for each class not 1 so our barrels get swapped out real regularly.
Waterboy
We don't have an equipment list listed anywhere that I am aware of.Billy Copelin shot a 6Dasher and Jerry Tierney shot a 280 or 280 AI Ken Schroeder shot a 6BR Charles Greer shot a 300 WSM and a 300 Ackley and Barry Bluhm shot a 6X47.
This was the first year we have had a nationals that late in the year and the weather was extremely good for us out here.If you go to www.weatherunderground.com and click on "trip planner" you can put in the range location and the match dates and it will list the weather history for as long as it has been recorded.You can use that as a comparator of the various clubs weather conditions.
The initial intent of my post was not to discourage the new shooter with the 300 Ultra as it does work as has been posted above.If you look in the Sierra reloading manuals they list John Buhay from Pennsylvania as using one in the manual.I realise it is probaly dated but there is nothing wrong with using it.
Ron Tilley(TillRoot1) Don The Pumpkin Nielson Lou Murdica and myself all own them but in our conditions for the Entire Year they are not producing that many wins for us.
If you call Alex Sitman right now as he is going on a hunting trip next week he will tell you I have a 300WSM heavygun sittting in his shop right now for bedding and not a 300 Ultra Mag.I would however in no way discourage L.G. from using one after talking to Lou Murdica who owns both and shot the Ultra to finish in the top 10.Our weather out here just doesn't allow it to shoot with the 300 Acklies at 1,000 yards.
Note that the guy bedding my gun is located in Pennsylvania and my gunsmith Jim Borden is also located in Pennsylvania.I like Pennsylvania and if you recall my earlier posts Williamsport is the only eastcoast venue I want to attend before I croak.
Alot of the stuff you guys do we don't use simply because we don't see the same kind of results as you are getting.We do however try it out first before making up our minds.
We shoot 12 months a year and we shoot 3 targets for each class not 1 so our barrels get swapped out real regularly.
Waterboy
Rich De
Member
Lynn........Thanks for that reply. As I had indicated in my post, I did not deny that they can shoot. Just figured they were a bit on the overkill side. With that being said, has anyone played with the .408 Chy-tech? I believe that is the maximum bullet diameter allowed? I know the bullets are expensive, but would seem to make a heck of a "wind bucker" in a heavy gun!
Rich De
Rich De
Rich
We can't shoot the 408 in NBRSA Matches or FCSA 50 BMG matches so out here it is a dead duck.
We did have a 80 pound 338 Lapua Improved shoot very well at the 600 yard nationals this year.The shooter was Les Shepard.
The first year we hosted the 600 yard nationals was our best year for group sizes as the weather was the best it has ever been.One year it blew the roof off the range and rained horribly and the mirage ate us alive another year.Our group sizes exactly follow the weather like a glove out here.
We have hosted every 600 yard nationals ever held and if you look at the results you can predict the weather.
Waterboy
We can't shoot the 408 in NBRSA Matches or FCSA 50 BMG matches so out here it is a dead duck.
We did have a 80 pound 338 Lapua Improved shoot very well at the 600 yard nationals this year.The shooter was Les Shepard.
The first year we hosted the 600 yard nationals was our best year for group sizes as the weather was the best it has ever been.One year it blew the roof off the range and rained horribly and the mirage ate us alive another year.Our group sizes exactly follow the weather like a glove out here.
We have hosted every 600 yard nationals ever held and if you look at the results you can predict the weather.
Waterboy
O
oneflyer
Guest
Rich and Lynn
A number of guys have tried the 408 at the range, here again brass and bullets are the issue. Can't really get quality of either. The interesting "wildcat" off that case is Baer's "Big Baer" which is the Cheytec necked to 338 with 35 degree shoulder. This case is capable of launching a 300 grainer at well over 3200 FPS with pretty good results. Great wind busting round.
Lynn- I too would love to give Sacramento a try and you guys are certainly welcome at our range anytime. I read the posts from your group out there with regularity. Now let me tell you about Buhay and his 300 Ultra record. The day he shot the record was very rainy and cloudy but a GREAT day to shoot. NO wind. The conditions prohibited us from promptly scoring and mounting targets and John, who had a last relay. had the best conditions of the day to shoot in. He had brought the Ultra that day anticipating lousy conditions given the relay he had. He never shot that gun after that year and in fact shoots a dasher now.
Yes Pennsylvania is blessed with some fine gunsmiths.
Do you have a schedule of matches for the year. My camper may find its way to your range this winter so I can try out my WSM there.
A number of guys have tried the 408 at the range, here again brass and bullets are the issue. Can't really get quality of either. The interesting "wildcat" off that case is Baer's "Big Baer" which is the Cheytec necked to 338 with 35 degree shoulder. This case is capable of launching a 300 grainer at well over 3200 FPS with pretty good results. Great wind busting round.
Lynn- I too would love to give Sacramento a try and you guys are certainly welcome at our range anytime. I read the posts from your group out there with regularity. Now let me tell you about Buhay and his 300 Ultra record. The day he shot the record was very rainy and cloudy but a GREAT day to shoot. NO wind. The conditions prohibited us from promptly scoring and mounting targets and John, who had a last relay. had the best conditions of the day to shoot in. He had brought the Ultra that day anticipating lousy conditions given the relay he had. He never shot that gun after that year and in fact shoots a dasher now.
Yes Pennsylvania is blessed with some fine gunsmiths.
Do you have a schedule of matches for the year. My camper may find its way to your range this winter so I can try out my WSM there.
Oneflyer
We shoot the 4th sunday of each month with half being 600 and the other half being 1000 unless a big match is coming up then we shoot that distance.Winter out here is actually the best conditions of the year.
I just back from video-taping some big bucks that are now hot after the does and wondering were they all were during the deer season.
Waterboy
We shoot the 4th sunday of each month with half being 600 and the other half being 1000 unless a big match is coming up then we shoot that distance.Winter out here is actually the best conditions of the year.
I just back from video-taping some big bucks that are now hot after the does and wondering were they all were during the deer season.
Waterboy
Rich
I looked into the 30-378 shortened like Howard Wolfe from Pennsylvania fame built for Earl Chronister but I didn't want to use the Norma or Weatherby brass.On the westcoast our primer pockets don't last like they do on the eastcoast or atleast nobody wants to talk about it.
I am thinking along the lines of using Jamison's patented dimensions but with 338 Lapua brass as the starting point.I just want a decent load in the upper node that doesn't eat the brass alive not necessaroily an earsplittenloudenboomer.
Waterboy
I looked into the 30-378 shortened like Howard Wolfe from Pennsylvania fame built for Earl Chronister but I didn't want to use the Norma or Weatherby brass.On the westcoast our primer pockets don't last like they do on the eastcoast or atleast nobody wants to talk about it.
I am thinking along the lines of using Jamison's patented dimensions but with 338 Lapua brass as the starting point.I just want a decent load in the upper node that doesn't eat the brass alive not necessaroily an earsplittenloudenboomer.
Waterboy
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L
L.G
Guest
Thanks guys for all your comments and suggestions,you all are always a big help.
steveinflag
New member
just thought you guys might enjoy these pics.
I'm no 1000 yard benchrest shooter but sometimes I shoot extreme long range for fun.I've only been to one 1000Y benchrest match near Tucson.It was interesting because I was pulling for Charles Greer when he set the LG 10 shot group record.It was fun for me to watch it happen right before my eyes.
Glenn Pearce made a 30-375Ruger wildcat cartridge for me a year and a half ago.It sends the 240 SMK's at 2925 fps out of a 30",9 twist Krieger.It seems like a very efficient case.
The 375R brass holds up well to high pressures and is decent quality.I did all the brass prep I could.Necks turned,reamed,trimmed,flash holes debured,reamed,primer pockets reamed,weight sorted.
I do love how accurate the 30 cal 240 SMK's are!I tend to agree with you on that.
Here's some pics from a couple years agbviously there was no wind.
There's two different groups on this 2'x3' steel plate.Top one is 13".Bottom is 15".
Distance was 1800 yards.Yes I do mean a little over 1 mile.
I shot this with my 30-375Ruger.
Velocity was 2775 fps.My new load sends the 240's at 2925fps.
Here's a pic of some cartridges for comparison.l/r...6x47Lapua,30-375Ruger,375Cheytac.Nah..I don't like wildcat cartridges...not at all.
I did shoot a couple small groups with my 375 Cheytac at 1000 yards.A four shot 4" and 5.5" group in 10-14 mph winds.
Steve
I'm no 1000 yard benchrest shooter but sometimes I shoot extreme long range for fun.I've only been to one 1000Y benchrest match near Tucson.It was interesting because I was pulling for Charles Greer when he set the LG 10 shot group record.It was fun for me to watch it happen right before my eyes.
Glenn Pearce made a 30-375Ruger wildcat cartridge for me a year and a half ago.It sends the 240 SMK's at 2925 fps out of a 30",9 twist Krieger.It seems like a very efficient case.
The 375R brass holds up well to high pressures and is decent quality.I did all the brass prep I could.Necks turned,reamed,trimmed,flash holes debured,reamed,primer pockets reamed,weight sorted.
I do love how accurate the 30 cal 240 SMK's are!I tend to agree with you on that.
Here's some pics from a couple years ag
bviously there was no wind.
There's two different groups on this 2'x3' steel plate.Top one is 13".Bottom is 15".
Distance was 1800 yards.Yes I do mean a little over 1 mile.
I shot this with my 30-375Ruger.
Velocity was 2775 fps.My new load sends the 240's at 2925fps.
Here's a pic of some cartridges for comparison.l/r...6x47Lapua,30-375Ruger,375Cheytac.Nah..I don't like wildcat cartridges...not at all.
I did shoot a couple small groups with my 375 Cheytac at 1000 yards.A four shot 4" and 5.5" group in 10-14 mph winds.
Steve
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