On the subject of ethics - -

Pete Wass

Pete Wass

Well-known member
I am interested in what others think about person who is scoring targets; Should that person score their own target?

Thanks,

Pete
 
Our match Director scores his own. He's a trustworthy, honest, and honorable individual. If there is any doubt about the edge of a bullet hole, he asks for another set of eyes, or two, for an opinion, which of course he respects. We're all good friends, who have a great time competing against each other, and at the end of the day our honor system is well intact. Our Director uses a magnifier when things aren't obvious.
 
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Pete Wass said:
I am interested in what others think about person who is scoring targets; Should that person score their own target?

Thanks,

Pete
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Hello Pete, Whenever I have found myself in that situation I always pass the scoring of my target off to someone else to avoid any question of impropriety.

Dick
 
i score my own...when all is obvious...any questions, as other have said i hand it off....i am our match director for one match each month

mike in co
 
My feeling is, if a person or persons can not trust me to score my own target, how can they trust me to score any others? There is the protest process, which is a standard part of our games, that takes care of it all, shouldn't it?

Regarding the scoring process, how many folks who score use a magnifier in addition to the one on the plug?

Thanks,

Pete
 
I am match director and am responsible for everything that happens at our matches. Depending on who is there to help and how many shooters we have, I may score all, part or very few targets. I do all the recording of the scores. I score my own targets as long as there is no doubt. When there is a question I ask two of the other referrees to score mine and I don't comment on who's it is in most cases. In fact, I always ask for help on any questionable scores. I sometimes disagree with the consensus of the other two, but I always accept it.

I use the reticle exclusively. I don't even carry a plug to the match. We do try and gather as much light as possible and have been know to use a magnifying glass.

Rick

Rick
 
Pete - You make a good point. I agree and seem to have the same attitude as you. There are others that would refer to us as "naive". Before either of us gets on a rant I can tell you without reservation that we can't even begin to make this argument - much less win it. Folks, at large, simply don't trust others. That's the reason the protest process exists in the first place.

I'll offer a couple of examples of what I've been approached with:

"That guy shoudn't be a referee - he's winning."
"No chance I'm gonna win my protest. Two of the referees are riding with the guy I'm trying to beat."

I suppose my point is that I don't have one but I do know this. There are others that simply don't think like I do.
 
Wilbur, I respectivley disagree. "Folks, at large, simply don't trust others. That's the reason the protest process exists in the first place."

People make mistakes. At least at the ranges I am able to shoot at, it is not a matter of trust or distrust - it is a matter of 1 person scoring hundreds of targets. Over the course of a weekend, chances are that person will make a mistake.

If I think there is a mistake in the way he/she (match director, scorer, whoever) scored something, then I can pay my $5 and go through the process. When I do pay my $5 it isn't personal - I just want what I earned.

Stanley
 
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I score my own targets at the matchs I score, if I have any question on a target I get the refs to look at it. Too be quite honest most of the time I don't even pay attention to who's target it is. I have always told the guys to check the targets for mistakes, I have made one or two over the years. :) If I didn't trust the scorer to score his own targets I wouldn't trust him to score any.
 
I have to score my own targets from time to time and I make it a point to be aware of my own target and if there is even a close call I will get a referee to score it. It is my view that if you are cheating at a club match you will be found quickly and will not be welcome very long.
If at a state match or national match the scenario of scoring one's own targets will most likely not occur as there are dedicated score/stats crew - again, bias from the scorer will soon be flushed out and the match director will find himself with an empty range over time.
If you're cheating to win some MDF at a club match or SSOY you will reap what you sow.
 
Pete, why do you ask? As match director, if you don't want or have a score, you have but one option...doing it yourself. If the others don't like the results maybe one will volunteer to take it over. When we were scoring several years ago, I did what others have already stated, I got the refs to score any that would be questionable so there would be no reproach. I did the same for any competitor if it was close. That process probably overused the refs but it seemed like the smart and fair thing to do. In that way, they didn't need to spend any money to have a second opinion. We now have a scorer, a very good one I might add, but when she scores at Capitol City, I will urge her to do the same; have a ref check any that might go either way so participants don't have to use their purse for a second opinion. Our matches aren't like some match with 50 to 100 participants as in some places. At those times a scorer may not be able delay the process as much and keep the process moving.

Randy J.
 
Yes Jerry...thats why there are backer targets at registered matches. :D
 
MarkR said:
Yes Jerry...thats why there are backer targets at registered matches. :D
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Not so, Mark. If I count right, 51 of the 77 non-championship points matches in IBS score matches on last years schedule have no requirement for backers. Look it up...backers are only currently required in grand agg events, not for single yardage matches.

I get the refs to look at any that can go either way. If anyone feels they can do better, there is a standing invitation to do so.:cool: I am not a self appointed scorer, but rather a volunteer so that it gets done, and to be of help in running matches.
 
Apollo said:
Wilbur, I respectivley disagree. "Folks, at large, simply don't trust others. That's the reason the protest process exists in the first place."

Stanley
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Yeah, I said it wrong. Should have said "Enough folks". Actually, I've been too close to this subject to discuss it pleasantly. I'll sit on my hands for a while.
 
It's times like this when I REALLY miss Wilt Chamberlain, who knew how to score more than anybody.
 
Bill Ohio said:
It's times like this when I REALLY miss Wilt Chamberlain, who knew how to score more than anybody.
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Didn't he claim to have slept with 20,000 women? That seems to insinuate that he may act favorably toward them....and also that he knew how to score them.:)
 
If I protest a score, it's because I feel there was a mistake in the process, not that someone cheated me on purpose. If I find I being cheated., I don't go back to that club until I feel the problem has been resolved.
 
I found an easy way to get around this potential problem. First guy who starts complaining about mistakes that arent there ( errors happen and if somebody brings it up we will fix it, missed X, point whatever no questions asked) for example a shooter was complaining that to many X's were being given. I handed him the stack of targets to check and let me know which ones were wrong, he did not find any errors and did not bring up this issue again.
 
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