New Floating Action Sleeve

E

eww1350

Guest
Hey, everyone..don't worry about density and altitude...frozen scopes or barrel tuners...The newest end-all technology is the "Floating Action Sleeve"
I saw this over on 6mmBR.com...Wow they claim a 6.5x284 is shooting in the
"ones and zeros" at 100 yds with a fast twist barrel and long heavy bullets:eek:
Man...I sure wish Darrell Holland could have figured out how to do this floating action and barrel thing "right"...:D
Damn, I just finished having a new barrel installed on my Hall action and a left side loading port added...I forgot to get an action sleeve installed..:p
 
If you have any product to promote, I'm thinkin you can writeup a brochure(claiming anything under the sun) and send it(with a donation) for the next daily 'headline' in a popular online magazine.

Sad that it works
 
new floating action sleeve

FLOATING an action with or with out a sleeve is old stuff.
barrel blocks too. The US air force floated their actions many years ago in high power competition. It was also used in benchrest in the early seventys.
sleeving became populay and soon some one floated a sleeved rifle.
Just so you know it's nothing new. That's really great shooting though.
even with top notch equipment. You have to pay attention.
 
The method by which Larry Crow attaches the sleeve to the barreled action is unlike anything else on the market. It is very different than a conventional sleeve or barrel block. Talk to Tim North if you don't believe me. The report was based on conversations with individuals who have tested the new system or seen the targets. I spoke at some length with Tim North who has confirmed the performance of the Crow Sleeve with the .338 Lapua, and can attest to its promise for the bigger calibers. By the way, Larry Crow did not "writeup a brochure (claiming anything under the sun)". He and his gunsmithing company have paid nothing to the 6mmBR.com site -- not a penny. Broughton Barrels is not an advertiser either.

Despite what MikeCR implies, the 6mmBR.com Daily Bulletin is most assuredly NOT based on paid placements. While some of the Daily Bulletin features cover new products manufactured by active sponsors (such as Berger Bullets and Lapua), the vast majority of product "spotlights" come from our own research or reader requests. Indeed, over 90% of product write-ups have been for non-advertisers.If we think an item would be of interest to the readers, we research and write the story -- and that usually requires that we dig out the facts and photos on our own time and on our own nickel. I personally work 2-3 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year, creating content for the Bulletin.

The list of active sponsors is found on the site. Were you to compare that list with all the companies whose products or services have been mentioned in the 6mmBR.com Blog and Daily Bulletin you would see that well over 90% of the reviewed products are produced by entities that do NOT currently advertise or donate to the site. PM me and I can provide a list of over 150 non-advertising companies/gunsmiths whose products or services have been reviewed.

Our editorial policy is to provide timely "first looks" at new or intriguing products that are newsworthy -- regardless of the source. Having discussed the Crow system with some pretty darn good shooters whose opinions I respect, I decided Larry's invention is worth investigating. And THAT is why we ran the story, not because he offered to donate or buy advertising.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Geeesh...

even with top notch equipment. You have to pay attention.

Ohhhh dear Lord........... They also did it without wind flags I'm sure......:rolleyes::rolleyes::D



Gosh, it's amazing to me that many non Benchrest shooters tout shooting perverbial one hole groups and NOT even mention flag use or shoot'n in a tunnel..............:rolleyes:



cale
 
Yo:

I searched high and low for the patent on that sleeve. I tried search terms "action" and "sleeve." I tried searching Mr. Crow as the inventor. Nothing. Do you by any chance know the patent number? I'd enjoy reading the patent. Thanks in advance.

Mike
 
Paul (Yo)

I can't find the article mentioned, I must be looking in the wrong place.
Regardless of what new innovation is brought out, writers should understand that the minute they make an absurd statement such as "ones and zeros" with a long range catrtridge such as the 6.5 284, they automatically leave themselves open for ridicule by those that know better. They also insult the intelligence of the shooters who know the real difficulties in achieveing that kind of accuracy.
High volume glossy covered Magazines, (Guns and Ammo, Shooting Times, etc), get away with this because of the ignorance of their readers. I would amagine that the viewers on your Web Site are a cut above that crowd, and know better.
By the way, I think that 6mmbr.com is the finest web site of it's kind, (next to Benchrest.com), on the Net..........jackie
 
jackie

Go to the home page and scroll down its about midway down..
 
Jackie, the feature appeared in the daily bulletin: http://www.6mmbr.com/bulletin.html .

Jackie, please note the claim was NOT made that the gun would Agg in the ones or zeros in registered benchrest competition. Larry has asserted that his gun has shot 5-shot groups in the ones, with at least one zero group. He has the targets to prove it.

You yourself have shot some stellar groups with long bullets. I know because you faxed me the targets from your 6BR rail gun tests. I don't consider it "absurd" to suggest this level of accuracy is possible with long bullets. Don Nielson says his 6.5x47 shoots "in the ones" at 100 yards, and that is with long Berger VLDs. Don won a few matches (including the 600-yard Nationals) with that rig so maybe his claim is not "absurd." Nor do I feel that my intelligence was insulted when Don told me his gun shoots "in the ones". And I believed, at face value, when Tim North told me that kind of one-group accuracy is "definitely doable" with a 6.5x284. Talk to Tim. His number is: 1.920.922.4882

Again, no one is claiming that the gun will Agg in the ones in competition -- we all know that is a different thing entirely because of the many variables involved. But I don't think it is crazy to think that a 17+ lb gun, with rails, and a 5" wide foreend and 2.5" wide toe, in ideal conditions, can shoot a group in the ones. Talk to Tim North. He says his own 6.5-284 (far less radical) light gun is capable of that kind of raw accuracy (in good conditions). Again we are talking about single group size, not an AGG shot in competition. Call it the gun's "peak mechanical accuracy." BTW, Tim may know a little bit about what that caliber can do -- he was the 2003 NBRSA 1000-yard 2-Gun Score Champion shooting a 6.5-284.

Jackie, as you know, the top 600-yard shooters (some of them using 6.5-284s) can shoot 1/4 MOA and better at 600 yards in good conditions. Therefore I don't find it so far-fetched that a big heavy gun with a really good barrel could produce a group in the ones (i.e. 0.100-0.199") at 100 yards.

- - -

Maybe it would have been better if I just never mentioned the accuracy claims. I did vet those claims with Tim North before running the story. He doesn't think they are invalid. In any case a gun built with the sleeve system will soon be on the long-range BR circuit and people can see for themselves whether it works. Again think "ideal mechanical accuracy" rather than "in-competition-agging-capability".
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Paul

If you remember, I shot an agg in the "teens" with the 6BR in my Rail Gun during your test, that's five groups at 200 yards. That is a big difference than one occurance.
I still say that if a manufacturer wants to be taken seriously by his peers, leave the Hyperbole to those who want to appeal to the ignorant masses.......jackie
 
Jackie,

I think I just realized perhaps we have a terminology issue. By "ones" did you think Crow was claiming .10 to .11" group size? I interpreted "ones" to mean 0.10-0.199" group size, and I think that's what he meant as well.

Was I incorrect? [I have edited the article to say groups under 0.200" in size]

Jackie's Teen Agg with VLDs
Jackie is 100% right. He did shoot a "teen agg" with Berger 105s at 200 yards. Here it is:

jackieagg105.jpg


Caption: At the high end of the spectrum, Jackie has achieved his best accuracy and lowest ES with RL15 and the Berger 105g VLDs, running a max charge at about 2990 fps. With this recipe he produced a 0.185 MOA, five by 5-shot aggregate at 200 yards (See photo). Jackie observed: "At 200, that is competitive benchrest accuracy".


Finally, Jackie I think your advice is well-taken to be much more "circumspect" re accuracy claims. In defense of Larry Crow though, he has an open invitation to a competitive trigger puller/gun writer to come test the gun for himself.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Paul, if vendors aren't providing your sales brochures(daily bulletins) for their own interests, then you are doing so for what reason?

To cut to the chase, your site is important to many. It influences many more. So you should consider responsible, objective reviews or news, to prevent running the herd off a cliff. Quite often the articles really are great.
But at Times:
A new innovation pops up on radar, you personally know little about it, but dig up heresay and slight it out there as though well established and proven for all. The We-say-so corporation feels that this is another great advancement..
Right, like any gun rag would..

I am surprised that you write this stuff.
If your not getting paid for it, as stated, you certainly should.
 
Mike, thanks for the positive words re some of our articles. Sadly the reality is that we have neither the time nor the resources to do extensive comparison testing of all the new products people want to learn about. Jackie can tell you the man hours that are involved doing comparison testing.

But the Bulletin really isn't designed for that kind of thing. It's designed for breaking news and things that are newsworthy that can pique readers interest quickly without a lot of verbiage. The Bulletin was created to provide a diversity of short items, including hardware "previews" (which are quite popular BTW). Lengthier, more "in-depth" reviews are found elsewhere in the 6mmBR.com site.

I truly hope people don't think the Bulletin is nothing but sales brochures for paying advertisers. I don't really think that's fair to say. Just last week a prominent vendor, Mr. B, called to say he had a batch of new actions he had just put up at very attractive prices. He inquired "how much to run the story?" I said... "Nothing. That is editorial; if it's newsworthy we run the story." Below I've listed the last 25 Bulletin entries. As you can see, they contain a mix of match info, tech tips, reloading advice, and product info.

SEB Stock -- Tech Analysis (advertiser, but item not for sale)
Rimfire Practice -- Shooting Skills Tips
Rimfire Silhouette Tips -- Course of Fire, Class Rules
WindFlag Balance Tips -- Tech Tip on Setting up Flags
Crow Action Sleeve -- Product Preview (non-advertiser)
CMP Savage Rifle Sale -- Special Youth Program Sale (non-advertiser)
SPOT Emergency Transponder -- Safety Product Description (non-advertiser)
New NSSF Director Named -- Shooting Industry News
Berger Releases 4 New Bullet Designs -- Product Preview (advertiser)
Caldwell BR Rest Sale -- Product Highlight (non-advertiser mfg./advertiser vendor)
J.M Browning -- Television Broadcast Notice
Barrel Crown Inspection -- Tech Tip
Hickory Ground Hog Shoot -- Match Sign-Up Info
Hornady Engineer Honored -- Industry News (non-advertiser)
Speer Reloading Manual Sale -- Sale Notice (non-advertiser mfg/vendor advertiser)
K&M Products -- Product Spotlight (non-advertiser)
Cabela's Gun Show -- Industry News (affiliate partner, non-advertiser)
Wind-Reading Skills -- Technical Article
Norma Brass Available -- Product News (non-advertiser)
Boron Nitride Sources -- Reloading Info (non-advertisers)
CMP Rulebook Update -- Competition Help
Cartridges of World -- Book Review
Commentary by Heller's Lawyer -- Legal Analysis
Event Calendar Notice -- Site News
D.C. v. Heller -- On-scene report in Washington by 6mmBR.com correspondent Robert Whitley

On a daily basis I ask readers how they like the Bulletin topic mix and if they have any suggestions. Many folks have asked for more videos, and also coverage of a wider range of calibers -- and we have been working on both those things. Roughly 7,000 readers look at the Bulletin each day. Since the Bulletin launched in March 2007, you are the second person to expressly complain about the product profiles. But I think I understand your perspective, and I certainly can work to do a better job in the future.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Your efforts and intentions are outstanding Paul.

But IMO, your headliners are nearly tabloid promotion. Very much as we see in magazines. They have pressures to get the next issues to press, and to make money as well. And many of us(apparently -unpolled) have come to understand that even the best magazines eventually slip to review products without ever seeing, much less testing the products they review. Nor the products they further slide to promote…
This is my view, one criticizum of one aspect of your site.
Thats all it is.
Maybe I am the only one who sees this. A rogue crackpot.
If this is true then all is fine, there is nothing to fix, and I hope as much. Otherwise, you might have someone independently review your bulletins for objectivity and to ensure responsible 'reporting'.

Consider this saying from a critics perspective:
"Every great cause begins as a movement, degenerates into a business, and ends up a racket"
 
Paul

I check your daily bulletin each day and I consider myself intelligent enough to make decisions as to whether or not I accept anything at face value. Keep up the good work.

Exactly how is the action attached to the sleeve and exactly how does the sleeve attach to the stock. I'm having a tough time figuring out how anything, that hasn't been done before, is being used here. I'm with Mike Marcelli here, I really want to read the patent and see what exactly is patented. Or, I'll settle for someone telling me what the invention is.

Thanks
Shelley
 
Criticism totally unwarranted, keep up the good work providing us with information about accuracy related items. I particularly enjoy that info. as I no longer buy the "gun rags" due to the BR central and 6mmbr web sites. Shelley got it correct, we can discern the difference between information provided and baseless promotion.
 
Shelley -- As a WAG, it looks to me that only the receiver ring is in contact with the sleeve, everything else "floats." The notion does have some merit. We have found that too long a barrel block does harm; I don't know if anyone has ever shown that too short a barrel block does harm. Plus, working off the receiver would give a way to key the block (excuse me, sleeve) if it is just glued in some fashion. Any sort of keying on the barrel is considered bad. With that, if a BB uses only friction, it has to have some length to keep things from slipping, if it uses any kind of bonding, it gets in the way of changing barrels.

Still on the WAG, I wouldn't have believed this patentable, but then I never though that Jamison had a case with the 300 WSM, either.
 
about 30 years late

Looks like great workmanship but this nothing new. I have an unlimited BR gun on the shelf that was built in the late 70's with a front sleeve. Nick Young, who I got the rifle from when he passed away had another unlimited BR rifle and a Heavy Varmint with a front sleeve. I built several front sleeve UL guns in the 80's and 90"s. I was going to talk to a shooter this weekend about using a front sleeve on a tube gun but our 1000 yd. match was canceled after Hvy gun. It's hard to shoot when you can't see the targets.

If he has gotten a Patent it will be unenforceable.

Shelly

What Nick and I did was either turn down a section on the action and epoxy that in the sleeve or epoxy a thin sleeve on the receiver ring. Then mount the action on a mandrel and turn the sleeve down to the diameter we wanted, leaving a small shoulder to butt up against the sleeve. This facilitated alginment when we epoxied the action into the sleeve. We set the sleeve up vertically over night while the epoxy cured. This kept the shoulder tight up against the sleeve. Personaly I see no reason to have a barrel block on a UL gun. Particulary with the actions we have today. Turn the front receiver down and glue in a block. No screws, no pressure on the barrel. It's a great idea whose time may have come around again..

This is just another example of everything going around in a big circle.


Dave
 
Last edited:
Copyright?

I have never looked at that site before, but I was amused to read the copyright notice

"ALL Bulletin content is copyrighted, © 2007 AccurateShooter.com. You may not reproduce original text or photos without advanced permission in writing."

Particularly since there is a quote in the article taken from this Forum.

Rob.
 
Charles

After seeing your new light gun Saturday. You were the one I was going to talk to about a front sleeve. Any thoughts? No screws so it could be thinner, easier to get into a stock.

Dave
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top