New Berger BR Bullet

Hovis,

All our bullets are made using automation. The presses are very similar to a hand operation. They use linkage to cam over center for repeatable travel and to "double hit" which is something we've always regarded as important for precision forming. Also, each press (operation) is seperate from the other so when a bullet is being seated or pointed it is not influenced by any other forces. Other large volume brands use one ram to form the bullets in a prgressive set up where many operations are happening at the same time. The difference between our process and a hand process is that the power source that moves the linkage is not a human arm and our bullets are fed through the machine automatically rather than with one's hand. The machine even runs the same speed as a human powered press.

Regards,
Eric
 
500 count as you aren't traveling with too many more bullets than you need for a weekend match. Not much point in carrying 1000 and subjecting them to the vibrations from traveling for long distances.
 
Once I have tried 100 and know I want to use them I order 1000 at a time so I have a years supply (maybe) and I dont have to worry about different lots.
As we know sometimes one lot shoots lots better than another in a given barrel.
500 is fine if you offer a better price for ordering 1k or more.
 
I like the idea of packing small - as long as there's a discount for big lots. I guess/hope/figure that there's less chance of them being mauled in transit that way.
 
The past couple of lots of Hand Made BR bullets I have purchased came in cardboard boxes of 500, which I think is about right. I am not a believer in bullets being able to cause any substancial damage to each other while in transit in their boxes, regardless of how big or small the box is. AND, there was not a discount for the larger box / quantity.
 
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How are these new bullets shooting fellas? Does anyone have anything to report on this? I have some coming in the mail. I hope for them to be here by friday. I will report and post some targets after i get a chance to tune up a load. Lee
 
Eric,

just send me six (6) thats all I need one (1) for fowler and five (5) for record, now all I have to do is figure out how many matches I want to go to this year and I will be set. :D
 
skeetlee said:
How are these new bullets shooting fellas? Does anyone have anything to report on this?
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I've seen them shot two seperate days now. Full load loaders only one day. Other day was pre-loaded ammo. All I can say or will say is that they are a target bullet. Just like their 68 FB, 66 Web, and 65 grain BT are target bullets. They'll shoot when you give 'em what they want. If you don't, they won't know where they're supposed to go. I'm afraid the search is still on for that "smart bullet" you just fire and forget............
 
Tom Libby said:
Eric,

just send me six (6) thats all I need one (1) for fowler and five (5) for record, now all I have to do is figure out how many matches I want to go to this year and I will be set. :D
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Tom, I guess you are just shooting for small group, huh? You might want to raise your order to 51, that way you can shoot a whole agg and one fouler.
 
Yea your right Mike, sides Tom dont need no stinking sighters. He can just point in the general direction of the target and shoot a .1.
 
goodgrouper said:
All I can say or will say is that they are a target bullet. Just like their 68 FB, 66 Web, and 65 grain BT are target bullets. They'll shoot when you give 'em what they want. If you don't, they won't know where they're supposed to go.
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I appreciate the feedback on both the box counts and how the bullets are shooting. It is important to be clear on our objective with this bullet. It is not meant to clearly out shoot all the quality bullets that are being made by skilled bulletsmiths. Our objective is to make an offering of our own that utilizes a deliberate design, allowing it to shoot well in the widest range of rifles and loads.

Will our bullet outshoot all bullets in every rifle? Of course not. Given the level of success benchrest shooters have been able to achieve after decades of evolving products it is not reasonable to think that a bullet, by itself, can reduce aggs by a significant percentage. This is especially true given that the top aggs are so tight to begin with. Improving a .199 agg by 10% (which would be a lot) gets you to a .179 agg. Sure this is better but to get this amount of improvement at such a small agg to begin with takes much more than just a good bullet.

Other bullet makers know how to make good bullets too. It is reasonable that these good bullets will shoot well in the many rifles being used in benchrest. The Berger 6mm BR Column bullet is our offering for a bullet that is equally capable of success in competition benchrest. I will leave it to the rifles to decide which brand shoots best. I'll offer than no BR shooter is ultimate successful if they don't try several brands (I personally don't have this option but I doubt Lowell or any of the other bullet makers shoot brands other than their own). I am proud of our efforts on this project, and believe that we have achieved success in providing a top performing option that is capable of winning BR matches.

Regards,
Eric
 
Eric, I've been following this post with interest and enjoy the wide range of comments and info. I want to thank you and Berger for taking the time and making the effort to produce really quality bullets. I hope it is encouraging to you to see that, when I logged-in today, this thread has over 10,620 views. All the best ...
 
Eric,

I hope I wasn't taken as saying your new bullet was not a worthwhile endeavor. Because I actually believe the contrary. Any attempt to improve a bullet is time well spent in my opinion.
I simply meant that this new bullet showed similar preferences to loads and seating depths that any and all match grade bullets share--whether hand made or automated. Give it, and the barrel, what makes them happy, and these bullets will shoot as good as any handmade bullet out there. But, be off that happy spot and it will react (again) just like any other match bullet...it will show you it's not liking something.

I don't believe that there is, or ever will be, a bullet that will not need to be tuned to some degree. But if there are some new innovations in manufacturing that get us closer to that goal, I'm all for them!

(btw, I've shot the standard 68 Berger match bullet in competitions for years and haven't ever had the feeling I was disadvantaged versus the custom handmade bullets I shoot also).
:)
 
goodgrouper said:
I hope I wasn't taken as saying your new bullet was not a worthwhile endeavor. Because I actually believe the contrary.
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It is hard to communicate intent with the written or typed word. I understood what you meant but was concerned that maybe others would consider your comments as suggesting poor performance. My response was not to you but rather a clarification to others who are reading this what our objective is for the 6mm BR Column.

My goal is to get Berger back on the equipment lists of BR matches. We are a genuine and capable option. Both of our posts express that idea and I wanted to make sure it was clear to everyone else.

Thank you for using our bullets. We will continue to hold true to Walt's position that we are a competitive BR quality level bullet maker regardless of the size and shape of the bullet we are making.

Regards,
Eric
 
Eric Stecker said:
I'll offer than no BR shooter is ultimate successful if they don't try several brands (I personally don't have this option but I doubt Lowell or any of the other bullet makers shoot brands other than their own). I am proud of our efforts on this project, and believe that we have achieved success in providing a top performing option that is capable of

Regards,
Eric
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The above words are what jump out at me. We can guarantee that any of the boutique bullet makers will not work for everyone.

I have had many chats with my shooting buddies on how we long for the day when we are able to find a system that works. This is a combination of barrel bullets and chambering that appears to perform at a level without having to try all sorts of combinations. What I mean is choosing a bullet and make it work. Just like boutique makers shooting there bullets and they may be past there glory day. Maybe there is something different that they should try ???

Or do they try another's??????
 
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CYanchycki,

I need more clarification. As a competition BR shooter myself, I understand what you mean by "a combination of barrel, bullets and chambering that appears (which is an odd word to use) to perform at a level (what level) without having to try all sorts of combinations". What I understand you to be suggesting is in complete contradiction of BR shooting.

Successful BR shooting is the result of both a skilled rifle tuner, wind doper and gun handler which only comes from lots of shooting. The level one needs to achieve a win at significant BR matches is so high that without tuning, wind doping and gun handling skill one has no chance of winning a BR match.

I'm certain that I don't understand any of your comments about bullet makers. I except that other brands may shoot better in a given rifle/barrel that I own but I'm not about to try another brand. I fully expect this is true of every other bullet maker as well. We, as a group, will continue to change things until we find a combination that shoots our brand best. We don't have the option of shooting other brands. To suggest that we do or should is a completely disconnect with reality.

I won't touch the "past there glory days" comment as I challenge anyone to make BR bullets to the same level as the known brands that are out there today. Suggesting any of the bullet makers are past their glory days is the same as saying all brands of all components are in the same situation. Anyone who thinks they can do better, should try. I'd like to see how that works out for them.

Regards,
Eric
 
Sorry Eric about being vague.

What I mean by barrel, bullet, and chambering combination and performing at a level is meant as at a competitive level.

I know to be competitive you need the ENTIRE package along with being able to read the wind and trigger time. The other thing I am getting at is when you find the combination that you are competitive using a certain bullet, chambering(reamer), neck tension that regardless of brand of barrel when you screw a new one on you are SO DAMN CLOSE to repeating the results that you DO NOT have to do tons of development. I know to stay on top that you have to be able to make changes on the fly but for fairly new shooters like myself I really feel the key to getting better or being competitive is finding that combination for the first time. I want to believe that once you find it you are never far away. That is the way I look at the Hall of Famers. They found what works for there bullet, chamber(reamer)etc combinations and as long as they do not stray to far when the new barrel goes on they have a real good idae of where to start.

I will guarantee you that if you were to take my rifles today and shoot them you would probably use them as tomato stakes..................:eek: Why? Because I may think it shoots good but I know not good enough. It is easy to say well sell it and move on. Not all of us have the luxury.

I hope this clears it up a bit.

What I refer to the glory days is when you hear Bart's is the hot ticket, then guys want the Hottenstein bullet then they want this or that instead of just staying with a bullet and working with it. We always hear try another bullet. Like you said you work for Berger so you shoot Berger. Lowell shoots his bullet and Bart his. etc. etc. What would the shooting community say if they ever heard that any of you were shooting someone else's bullet because your own bullet was not working in your current barrel? You stick with your brand of bullet because in each makers eyes there bullet is the BEST.

We always hear if the bullet is not working try another. Well again that ups the cost. In the US that is fine but in the LEGAL REAL WORLD there is ONLY ONE bullet that can be shipped into Canada and that is your bullet, BERGER. Tell me how many of the small guys are willing to pay for the license to export the SMALL quantities to Canada. I will GUARANTEE you NONE. Not worth the 2-3 G it costs.

I am hoping for the day that I luck out and for example your Berger Column bullet ends up a killer in my combination. I know that is not the real world but we have hopes just as Shelley Davidson had a vision for a rifle that could be competitive regardless what range you were at. Kind of like what Calfee says about a stopped muzzle and regardless of the variation in velocity the bullets will stack in there. It is left up to the shooter and the wind.

This make sense now?

Calvin
 
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Eric Stecker said:
(I personally don't have this option but I doubt Lowell or any of the other bullet makers shoot brands other than their own).
Regards,
Eric
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Hi Eric, just curious, did you include a Lowell Hottenstien or Gary Ocock style, shallow angled minimal boattail base bullet, in the mix of your test batch of bullets that were put thru the analysis phase by Lou Merdica?.................Don
 
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