New 1000-yd Heavy Gun World Record--Today at Hawks Ridge

4Mesh said:
Joel,

You're not trying to say that you weren't aiming out there in the 8 ring are you? Here I thought you were just shooting for group, sacrificing score! :)

Hey, don't feel bad, short range guys rarely ever put their groups inside the little square either! :D

Dont' sweat it. After all, it is a bit much to expect to have score with the group. I mean, bullets that won't fly at long range, in an overbore, inefficient case. WITH a BELT of all things, we know they're no good. Powder that's too slow for serious competition work (and way too inconsistent). Not to mention too much of it. Wrong twist for the bullet, or at least less than ideal. And a gun that doesn't look like anyone elses gun. Who'd expect it to score too!

Sry man, I just had to do it!
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Don't want to steal any of Joel's thunder, but actually, the 1:12" twist is slightly "too fast": at Standard, sea-level conditions, this bullet is ideally suited to a 1:12.5" twist rate, which would impart 1.5 Sg. :eek::D RG
 
R. G. Robinett said:
actually, the 1:12" twist is slightly "too fast": at Standard, sea-level conditions, this bullet is ideally suited to a 1:12.5" twist rate, which would impart 1.5 Sg. :eek::D RG
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That would explain the Fliers!

:D :eek:

Do you think that the inappropriate twist might be to blame for the 1 minute of right wind? :p

LMAO

I'll say this. That's the first 80 I ever saw with 10 8's. My lifes ambition was to shoot a 90 all black! Came close, shot 3 91's!
 
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4Mesh said:
That would explain the Fliers!

:D :eek:

Do you think that the inappropriate twist might be to blame for the 1 minute of right wind? :p
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Right wind? Naw, that would have been a left wind. At Hawks Ridge, you can't shoot small off bench 1 in a right (east) wind.

Dunno if anybody mentioned it, but it was generally windy Saturday. Think there was one relay where only one or two shooters got a valid target.

As to the shots being in the 8-ring, you have to remember that this was match 2. (We're shooting 2 matches a day now.) Joel had already won score in match 1; he didn't want to be accused of being small-minded.
 
12 Twist With BIBS 187

A couple of things I considered when selecting a 12 twist.

If anything ever happened to Randy, God forbid, I can shoot 210 Bergers or Clinch River 210/216 just fine.

Tony Boyer once commented about shooting the 6 PPC in a 14 vs 15 twist. He said the 14 grouped better when the conditions got tough. We often have tough conditions at 1000 so I thought maybe spinning the 187's a little faster might be beneficial.
 
Charles E said:
Right wind? Naw, that would have been a left wind. At Hawks Ridge, you can't shoot small off bench 1 in a right (east) wind.

Dunno if anybody mentioned it, but it was generally windy Saturday. Think there was one relay where only one or two shooters got a valid target.

As to the shots being in the 8-ring, you have to remember that this was match 2. (We're shooting 2 matches a day now.) Joel had already won score in match 1; he didn't want to be accused of being small-minded.
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Charles,

yea actually I had heard that it wasn't such a nice day. Makes a guy wonder how anyone can shoot that small when a group gets moved that much. Two of the smallest groups I've shot were moved roughly about 1 mile from the center as well. I remember I about had a coronary on the one. I saw it and said, "What the ___ am I doing in the 8 ring?" Nobody coulda called that movement after the sighters I shot.

And Joel, you know I just love it when all the wrong stuff, works! Ain't no one recipe in this game.
 
What a pleasure

Like a kid in a candy store,or any other saying you can think of that depicts joy.The look on your face priceless.

Lets see bad conditions, shooting off of the bench no one wants. I beleive it was not a fluke. It surely could not have happened to a nicer guy.

Congratulations, Waverly
 
4Mesh said:
And Joel, you know I just love it when all the wrong stuff, works! Ain't no one recipe in this game.
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Phil, I was going to ignore this one, but thought about how many times we tell newcomers that their first gun should be in a proven chambering . . .

How can a .300 Ackley, or .308 Baer or .300 Goodling -- or even a or .300 Wetherby for that matter -- be "wrong"? They have probably won more HG matches than anything else.

And Rel-25 has been winning a lot at Hawks Ridge, esp. after Rel-22 got a bit faster.

And I don't know of any well built HG tensioned-barrel guns that don't shoot very well. Of course, they are expensive to make if you don't build your own, so not for everybody.

That leaves the BIBs flat-base bullets. Yup. They are wrong. Nobody should use them. Stick to the high BC stuff, like the Bergers and 240 Sierras. Leave the BIBs for us weird sorts.
 
Charles,

You needn't take issue with anything, I was just poking fun with him because of the unlikely combination he's made work. I sorta like that kind of thing. The experimenters of this sport come up with some crazy stuff that works pretty good sometimes. If you don't see the irony in the whole setup, then you missed the joke. I mean, on top of it all, he's shooting a "Ballistically Inferior Bullet", is he not? :D

Last year, I had to pull a bullet and show a person what powder I was shooting for them to believe what I said. It simply doesn't work... but... shot ok for me!

The whole "Flavor of the week" thing in 1Kbr is sorta funny. Some folks jump on, others just keep doing what they've been and do well with it.

I've seen folks do stuff and then scratched my head wondering how it was possible with thier setup being what it was. If anybody but Joel had said it I'da probably quietly turned and thought "no way".

I think I also went on record after my first time going to Ohio, saying that they will never shoot a score agg record at that range. Well, they shot em! Several!

Its a fun game ain't it?
 
Charles

"Leave the BIB's to us weird sorts"

I sorta resemble that remark but would rather be called inquisitive, adventuresome.

Weird means we might make the 6 O'clock news.

Dave
 
Dave,

I used "weird" so other people wouldn't use them. Wouldn't want to diminish our supply, & besides, why give away our advantage?
 
Hi All, well i'll hold up up my hand for one of the "weird sorts".. For a start i'm an Ozzie(Australian), use a Stretcher barrel combination and the 187s,build all my own stuff,hell i even stitched up the front sand bag .. I go through all sorts of hoops everytime i have to get another lot of bullets over to here (one lot took 11 months),but to tell ya truth ,i'm real happy as nobody else is shootin them .. Joel pointed out to me ,the 10 shot World record for group , the IBS record, the NBRSA record and the smallest group shot in AUST were all accomplished with the 187 BIB .. Out of that 3 of the 4 used a tensioned barrel .. opinions vary as it should be ,but the stats are just that, STATS..JR..Jeff Rogers..ps now all we got to do is to get Tooley to put on a Tensioner and it will be complete.. ps.ps Phil , Hi mate , wish i could say that i was the previous IBS record holder ,and with those new fandangled VLD thingos(smile). Good shootin in '09
 
a.JR said:
ps now all we got to do is to get Tooley to put on a Tensioner and it will be complete
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Maybe Tooley will build himself a tensioned rig. He has been doing some experimenting lately so maybe he'll take the time to put one together for himself. His customers can just wait a little longer to get their rifles.
 
Joel?? Joel?? Tooley an experimenter? You mean with guns?

I'm thinking Daves more into other types of experimentation. Sorta like last night here I had a friend stop in to see some of the new house renovation and he got me "Experimenting" with a bottle of Irish Whiskey! There's more Daves competitive interest! And somethin's tellin me I'd loose at this with him! Actually it worked pretty good. I was up earlier than normal this morning and had a great day!

Before you ask Dave, no, I never got to see the label on the stuff. It never came out of the brown bag. I'da guessed it was Chevis but it seemed a bit too drinkable for that stuff. I always thought that was turpentine. This was more like a good oak'y moonshine. (no sayin it wansn't).

:D
 
Jeff

You'll be happy to know that I've built a protype barrel. It's built like the idea I bounced off you last year. To date nothing bad has reared up. Thinking about a heavy gun barrel now. Just happen to have 30-13.5 Kreiger around. I wonder what bullet would work in that? I'll start the hunt for some tubing next week.

Dave
 
ya'll turned Tooley to the dark side now!!!!

Dave.... do I need to remind you that your NBRSA record was shot without a tension barrel. And you have won a ton of relays with good aggs without a tension barrel. What was is it that I always use to hear?.... keep it simple!! ;)

next thing I know you will get rid of Molly, sell your truck, and will start drinking Kool-aid. Then buy a little white fluffy dog that squeaks and VW beetle van with flowers on the side.
I guess that ain't all bad seeing how you will leave all the good bourbon just for me..... which isn't a problem BTW. But won't be as much fun on the road!

Phil,
good to hear you got your system flushed out!

I assume you have all the pics and info of Joel's group that you need for your "3 inch club" listing on the PA website correct?

Joel,
As I said on the phone last weekend... congratulations! Now lets start working on those aggs. Because small groups are nice but aggs prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that tension barrels are less finicky and have a broader tuning range. Or at least that was the original theory going into this and that jury is still out.

Steve

P.S - what is that old saying about good bullets over high BC....... did I say that?
 
Joel's accomplishment has even gotten to a knife forum I belong to, viewed in an entirely different way, from a completely different perspective.....

Now most of these guys are pretty reasonable, but they seem to think that Joel was cheating, somehow.....

They aren't very familiar with our sport, so they have a belief that guns should be shot offhand, opensights.....

http://www.jerzeedevil.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54237http://www.jerzeedevil.com/forums/showthread.php?p=609925#post609925

Some of the comments are humourous, some are outlandish.....

I tried to explain, but I'm now getting comments, that are hard to defend against, just because, they don't, or won't, understand.....
 
Steve Shelp said:
ya'll turned Tooley to the dark side now!!!!


next thing I know you will get rid of Molly, sell your truck, and will start drinking Kool-aid. Then buy a little white fluffy dog that squeaks and VW beetle van with flowers on the side.

Steve

P.S - what is that old saying about good bullets over high BC....... did I say that?
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Steve, remember the C W McCall song "Convoy"? ...."Friends of Jesus in a chartruse microbus"? Tooley was the driver.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tk4gRBgDQw
 
Dave, The dark side clouds everything impossibile to see the future is!(Yoda)..Tensioned barrels are not for everyone but i'm sure interested in your results..Especially if it is with the rearward placed tension nut we talked about last .. The tubing is important,you need good stuff like the light gun tubes i sent Joel and Charles last year,just a size or two up .. Bullet wize, mabye RG will make ya a mini boatail 195gn ,ask wisely you must..JR..Jeff Rogers
Dave Tooley said:
Jeff

You'll be happy to know that I've built a protype barrel. It's built like the idea I bounced off you last year. To date nothing bad has reared up. Thinking about a heavy gun barrel now. Just happen to have 30-13.5 Kreiger around. I wonder what bullet would work in that? I'll start the hunt for some tubing next week.

Dave
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