Need help from hunter shooters.

L

Larry M

New member
I have a new Hunter gun in 30x47L with a .331 nk. It's on trued Rem action because I had on hand The barel is lightly used Shilen 15T because I got an incredable deal on it. I only had to buy a used stock and scope to try out the 6x game. I am getting ready to start on the cases. I'm going to blow out the cases with pistol powder becase I have it and have had poor results expanding up. I have a little 133 on hand that I will start with. I have read H322 and benchmark are good. WHere should I start with 133? I have some RL10x on hand will that be worth a try? I have some bib 118 7og to try as a start. But intend to experiment with some 125's in thinking that they might be better suited to the 15 twist barrel. Other than the questions asked any advice on what or how to load for the new rig, gun bench technique or stratagy that might be different VFS that I am used to shooting. Just any advice at all for a new Hunter class shooter.
Larry
 
It would be my opinion

Larry M said:
I have a new Hunter gun in 30x47L with a .331 nk. It's on trued Rem action because I had on hand The barel is lightly used Shilen 15T because I got an incredable deal on it. I only had to buy a used stock and scope to try out the 6x game. I am getting ready to start on the cases. I'm going to blow out the cases with pistol powder becase I have it and have had poor results expanding up. I have a little 133 on hand that I will start with. I have read H322 and benchmark are good. WHere should I start with 133? I have some RL10x on hand will that be worth a try? I have some bib 118 7og to try as a start. But intend to experiment with some 125's in thinking that they might be better suited to the 15 twist barrel. Other than the questions asked any advice on what or how to load for the new rig, gun bench technique or stratagy that might be different VFS that I am used to shooting. Just any advice at all for a new Hunter class shooter.
Larry
Click to expand...

That if you have used your FL die to make your cases, you can simply load them and use them to break in your barrel and to do load testing. Once you have all of that compleated you will be all set. In other words, you do not need to use shotgun powder.

To date I have not had any luck with H-322 in anything I have tried to make it work in . Benchmark may be ok but I suspect it is in the same relm as H-322. A friend told me he uses H-4198 in his 30-47L. H-4198 seems to work pretty well in a wide variety of cases.
 
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I am shooting the 30-47 and just fireform using cull bullets. As far as powder goes, VV135 is what I use with 125 and 130g bullets. Some also use W748. VV133 is to fast for the 30-47.

Mike
 
Hi Larry.

If you're going to start with N133 and the 118-125's, around 38.0 will be a safe place to begin. N135 and 748 users with this case usually end up around 42.0-43.5 so you can use that as a good guideline when comparing powders. Benchmark is a great but overlooked powder for these cases...N133 loads will give you a starting point as Benchmark runs just a skosh slower than most N133....sort of between N133 and the N135/748 range. Pretty hard to get into trouble, here.

You'll find this case tunes up just like a 30BR does. If you start with .025-.030 of 'jam', .002 neck clearance, a neck bushing .003 .004 under what a loaded round measures over the pressure ring and tune with the powder charge you'll find Nirvana :) (or maybe even Valhalla :cool:) pretty quickly.

I'd advise setting aside 5 'test mule' cases for working with flash hole sizes. After you've fireformed the cases once and get a baseline, working in this area can be pretty rewarding for those using the Lapua small primer/flash hole case.

Enjoy..and keep us posted. :) -Al
 
Al...

Al Nyhus said:
Hi Larry.

If you're going to start with N133 and the 118-125's, around 38.0 will be a safe place to begin. N135 and 748 users with this case usually end up around 42.0-43.5 so you can use that as a good guideline when comparing powders. Benchmark is a great but overlooked powder for these cases...N133 loads will give you a starting point as Benchmark runs just a skosh slower than most N133....sort of between N133 and the N135/748 range. Pretty hard to get into trouble, here.

You'll find this case tunes up just like a 30BR does. If you start with .025-.030 of 'jam', .002 neck clearance, a neck bushing .003 .004 under what a loaded round measures over the pressure ring and tune with the powder charge you'll find Nirvana :) (or maybe even Valhalla :cool:) pretty quickly.

I'd advise setting aside 5 'test mule' cases for working with flash hole sizes. After you've fireformed the cases once and get a baseline, working in this area can be pretty rewarding for those using the Lapua small primer/flash hole case.

Enjoy..and keep us posted. :) -Al
Click to expand...

my 8 lb jug of Benchmark lists 42 gr with a 150 gr bullet..in a 308 case. That should make a 118 really fly!!
 
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Al Nyhus said:
Hi Larry.

If you're going to start with N133 and the 118-125's, around 38.0 will be a safe place to begin. N135 and 748 users with this case usually end up around 42.0-43.5 so you can use that as a good guideline when comparing powders. Benchmark is a great but overlooked powder for these cases...N133 loads will give you a starting point as Benchmark runs just a skosh slower than most N133....sort of between N133 and the N135/748 range. Pretty hard to get into trouble, here.

You'll find this case tunes up just like a 30BR does. If you start with .025-.030 of 'jam', .002 neck clearance, a neck bushing .003 .004 under what a loaded round measures over the pressure ring and tune with the powder charge you'll find Nirvana :) (or maybe even Valhalla :cool:) pretty quickly.

I'd advise setting aside 5 'test mule' cases for working with flash hole sizes. After you've fireformed the cases once and get a baseline, working in this area can be pretty rewarding for those using the Lapua small primer/flash hole case.

Enjoy..and keep us posted. :) -Al
Click to expand...

In addition to Al's comments: H-322 (The 'new' - EXTREME - version) and
N-133 are very similar and both 'shoot' extermely well - especially with the bullets of 125 Gr. and under. The key with both numbers is to work up via 1/2 Gr. increments untill one of the following dictates stopping: excessive pressure; a FULL case; or, the grouping ' goes AWAY'. Typically, with these powders (H-322 and N-133), at Al's recommended starting point, groups will be ugly three-leaf clover deals and may leave some shots which do not even touch . . . then, at some point, the bullets will just want to go into a single pleasingly SMALL hole! :eek:;) This usually occurs before excessive pressure is reached and continues over a WIDE charge-weight window (expect a full 1.5 Gr. 'window') before either excessive pressure or, groups deteriorate into largish three-leaf clovers (or worse) again. If there's room for more fule, don't give up until pressure signs dictate stopping - most people give up too soon on these numbers. Just keep in mind, that excessive pressure IS possible.
Keep 'em ON the X! RG
 
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Guess I must be

R. G. Robinett said:
In addition to Al's comments: H-322 (The 'new' - EXTREME - version) and
N-133 are very similar and both 'shoot' extermely well - especially with the bullets of 125 Gr. and under. The key with both numbers is to work up via 1/2 Gr. increments untill one of the following dictates stopping: excessive pressure; a FULL case; or, the grouping ' goes AWAY'. Typically, with these powders (H-322 and N-133), at Al's recommended starting point, groups will be ugly three-leaf clover deals and may leave some shots which do not even touch . . . then, at some point, the bullets will just want to go into a single pleasingly SMALL hole! :eek:;) This usually occurs before excessive pressure is reached and continues over a WIDE charge-weight window (expect a full 1.5 Gr. 'window') before either excessive pressure or, groups deteriorate into largish three-leaf clovers (or worse) again. If there's room for more fule, don't give up until pressure signs dictate stopping - most people give up too soon on these numbers. Just keep in mind, that excessive pressure IS possible.
Keep 'em ON the X! RG
Click to expand...



One of those faint @ heart folks, eh :eek: . Nextr time I go to the range I'll try your formula Randy. Would the same be true for benchmark? Thanks. Pete
 
30 X 47 Hunter Case

Larry,
One thing you may want to verify is the amount of freebore in the chamber you have. The gunsmith that chambered the barrel should be able to tell you this. In my experience if the chamber has .060" freebore or less your choice of the 118 grain bullets or lighter will be fine. If you have one that is .090" or more you may need to try bullets using 1.080" long jackets. Both the BIB and 10X bullets have offerings that will accomidate either chamber.
I have used Benchmark in a number of hunter guns with 125 and 135 grain bullets. These were used in both 30 X 44's and a longer 47-1/2 Be careful, when you get close to maximum pressure things change in a hurry. Good luck, and welcome to hunter shooting.

Randy
 
First Thanks to everyone for your help. Pete the rason I want toblow the cases out is that I havn't had good results expanding up. The first 30BR cases I made bent so bad they never did straighten out. I dont have my FL die yet, I'm going to fire some cases a few times and send them to Harrells. I'm gonna try it with pistol powder because thats what I have will start like Alinwa did and work that up. I had a thought also, I have some 6.5x47 cases from my 600yd gun that have been fired 8 times. I was wondering if I could use these for some of my tests before I used my new cases. I know they will be harder and the necks have already been turned but I was thinking I could use these to figure out how much powder I need to blow my cases out.
 
Larry M,

As an aside...... I've formed cases using pistol powder with wax, pistol powder with Cream Of Wheat, Pistol powder with tissue paper and pistol powder with nothing.


May I suggest that you use the absolute SIMPLEST method of the several and just use the pistol powder alone like I did the shottygun powder. It will work fine, much better than mechanically expanding up any way you do it. BUT, I've found shotgun powder to be just a wee bit slower than pistol (I state this with trepidation :rolleyes: since "burn rates" vary wildly based on confinement.... but....) ANYways, I've had a little more bulk, sharper edges and a little more consistency using shotgun powder. I realize that there's a certain amount of crossover between the two but shotgun powder "seems" slower, it takes more of it..... generally. I'm way out on a limb here. :) At least the "shotgun" powders I've used, SuperLite, Clays and 700X seemed to work well. IMO if you use the pistol powder it's important that you point it straight up. Ken Howell advocates pistol powder but he also uses a bulky COW filler to add resistance. It's my opinion that the bulky filler may act to attenuate the burn from shot-to-shot. This is my rationale for using ONLY powder.

Good luck anyhow


al
 
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Blowing out cases

There is no distinctive line between pistol and shotgun powder. The same powder can be used in both, all depending og what pistol case or weight of charge in the shotgun shell. I dont think it realy matters what the brand or number of powder you use, you must just adjust the quantity after the burning rate. I have fireformed .25 BR with shotgun powder and tissue, but if one is near maximum belive it or not the quantity of the tissue and how tight it is bundled up will matter, and can raise pressure. It is just something one hast to experiment with and find the way one regards the best. Its not rocket sience just common sence.
 
Larry: The excessive runout from expanding up can be dealt with a couple of ways:

Before neck turning, run the expanded case through a f.l. bushing die with a bushing .002-.003 smaller than the expanded neck o.d.
This will correct 90% of the runout. On cases like the 30BR and 6.5 Lapua necked up to .30....where there is a 'ridge' at the bottom of the neck from what used to be the shoulder of the case....I put a spacer under the bushing in my die to move the bushing up so it doesn't contact the 'ridge'. Depending on the die, you may have to have a similar thickness spacer to allow the bushing for the die top/spindle assy. to be raised in the die. Now, run it back over the expander...you're only expanding it the same .002-.003 that you sized it down with the bushing and you won't introduce any significant runout.
Now, turn off the 'ridge' in one or two steps and then make your final cut. If you get real aggressive with the 'ridge', it will pull the neck off axis from the case body...big time.

After neck turning, anneal ;) the cases, run them through a f.l. bushing die and you're "cocked, locked and ready to rock".... as Ted Nugent would say. ;)

My experience is that I get one chance to make a perfect case...and that's the first time I whap it with about 50,000+ p.s.i. during f-forming. Any issues with a case's concentricity, etc. that are still there after a case has been fired the first time will forever be an issue with that case.

If a case has been prepped properly and doesn't need to blow out a whole lot to take on the chambers shape...in other words, it just needs the shoulders sharpened up a bit in f-forming...I can go right to load work while f-forming.

Just my approach to it. Good shootin'. :) -Al
 
I would like to see

one of those dies that forms cases hydraulically. I think it might be fun to have one.
 
Well yesterday afternoon I went and blew out the cases. To find the charge I used some of my old 6.5 cases to find the charge. It took a bit more than I expected, more than it took to make 30BR cases.Things seemed to come out ok. I wouldnt call em dead straight though, they have about .002 runout and after expanding .004. I'm trimmin em now. Then I'll turn in steps as suggested. I have been wanting to try woodchuck den annealers for my 6.5 I guess I have more reason to get it. Thanks again everyone.
 
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