Neck sizing problem - need more of neck sized

F

fishbone

Guest
This is the problem, or situation, I have no answer for. Maybe it is something to be ignored.
I'm using a Harrell 30br die that uses a floating neck bushing.
After sizing, a bullet offers normal resistance while being seated as the bullet's pressure ring passes through the sized portion of the neck.
As the pressure ring passes the end of the sized area, resistance is reduced and there is a quick drop into place.
The pressure ring is now sitting in an un-sized section of the neck.
The bullet is snug and unmoving.

Why this happens;
A normal .325" neck bushing is being used with outside dimensions of 3/8" long and 1/2" dia.
The sized length of the neck area is .225"
The pressure ring is seated .350" deep. Those two measurements are approx.
That right there is the problem.

I know of no way to adjust the size length or depth.
The bullet seating is at JT. BIB 115-7.

My thinking is that seating within the sized area would be better for accuracy, or at least not hamper it.

Your thoughts please.
 
fishbone said:
This is the problem, or situation, I have no answer for. Maybe it is something to be ignored.
I'm using a Harrell 30br die that uses a floating neck bushing.
After sizing, a bullet offers normal resistance while being seated as the bullet's pressure ring passes through the sized portion of the neck.
As the pressure ring passes the end of the sized area, resistance is reduced and there is a quick drop into place.
The pressure ring is now sitting in an un-sized section of the neck.
The bullet is snug and unmoving.

Why this happens;
A normal .325" neck bushing is being used with outside dimensions of 3/8" long and 1/2" dia.
The sized length of the neck area is .225"
The pressure ring is seated .350" deep. Those two measurements are approx.
That right there is the problem.

I know of no way to adjust the size length or depth.
The bullet seating is at JT. BIB 115-7.

My thinking is that seating within the sized area would be better for accuracy, or at least not hamper it.

Your thoughts please.
Click to expand...

If it bothers you, buy another die.

Neil Jones would be a fine choice. One that eliminates your problem.
 
if it bothers you , throat the gun and move the seating out to
where the pressure ring stays in the re-sized portion of the neck.

more volume, may find another node in higher in velocity
 
the question is can you make a bushing die that sizes that far down the neck,
with out mess up the rest of the case ?
based on previous discussions on 30 br, it sounded like too short of a throat.
again i am the novice at 30 br.
 
Buy

CMaier said:
the question is can you make a bushing die that sizes that far down the neck,
with out mess up the rest of the case ?
based on previous discussions on 30 br, it sounded like too short of a throat.
again i am the novice at 30 br.
Click to expand...

a redding competition neck size die. It will size almost the entire neck and may solve your problem and still allow you to use short bullets seated on or into the lands with enough neck to hold them securely.

Zero or little freebore results in this issue with long bullets(1" jackets), and 50-50 thou freebore doesn't capture much of a .925-.945" bullet if you want to be on or into the lands.
 
Last edited:
SEATER...surely a mental typo... competition NECK SIZER ??

glp said:
a redding competition seater. It will size almost the entire neck and may solve your problem and still allow you to use short bullets seated on or into the lands with enough neck to hold them securely.

Zero or little freebore results in this issue with long bullets(1" jackets), and 50-50 thou freebore doesn't capture much of a .925-.945" bullet if you want to be on or into the lands.
Click to expand...
 
fishbone said:
My thinking is that seating within the sized area would be better for accuracy, or at least not hamper it.
Click to expand...

Yes, you want the base of the bullet in a sized portion of the neck.

fishbone said:
I know of no way to adjust the size length or depth.
Click to expand...

On a Harrel die, simply machine the 'floor' (where the bottom of the bushing sits) deeper to size more of the neck length. On mine that are so modified, a rubber 'o' ring on top of the bushing lets the bushing 'float' while acting as a spacer to compensate for how much you lowered the 'floor'. I've also used some small 303/304 stainless machine shims in place of the 'o' ring...both work well.

FWIW, testing with full length sized necks vs. partially sized necks (with the pressure ring in the sized portion on the partially sized necks), accuracy was better with the full length sized necks.
 
Thanks for all the good responses.
My comments on a couple of them.

I could not figure out how the Neil Jones die works from the website.
May be a good answer.

Cutting the throat would fix my problem. A shooting partner has that on his rifle allowing a ton more powder room.
Was hoping for a less expensive solution.

I have to look at the Redding die.

Al Nyhus may have hit on something. I had thought machining the floor in the die would help. But the mention of a rubber ring sent a shiver up my spine. What rubber ring?
I never saw a spacer ring with this die. I have spoken with Harrells and was essentially told I should not have the problem (maybe assuming I have a spacer in use).
Looks like I need to try spacers to see how much more neck sizing depth/length I can get out of it.
Could be on to something here.
Thanks fellows.
 
fishbone said:
I had thought machining the floor in the die would help. But the mention of a rubber ring sent a shiver up my spine. What rubber ring? I never saw a spacer ring with this die. I have spoken with Harrells and was essentially told I should not have the problem (maybe assuming I have a spacer in use).
Looks like I need to try spacers to see how much more neck sizing depth/length I can get out of it.
Could be on to something here.
Thanks fellows.
Click to expand...

There is no spacer that comes with the die. You need a spacer on top of the bushing to compensate for lowering the bushing 'floor'. An 'o' ring simply acts as a spacer, as does the metal shims I mentioned. You want the bushing to have a small amount of movement top/bottom and side/side to allow it to self center on the neck.

You can also machine the top of the die by the same amount you lower the floor.

I've done it both ways.
 
The Jones FL die uses his bushings that have the shoulder built in. The bump is set by adjusting the bushing height in the die. The body of the die can be set to contact the shell holder no matter what the bump setting is. Because the bushing includes the shoulder, it sizes all the way to the shoulder.
 
Boyd Allen said:
The Jones FL die uses his bushings that have the shoulder built in. The bump is set by adjusting the bushing height in the die. The body of the die can be set to contact the shell holder no matter what the bump setting is. Because the bushing includes the shoulder, it sizes all the way to the shoulder.
Click to expand...

I take it his bushings are only supplied by him are come in various sizes.
Sounds like my solution. Thanks
 
I just spoke with Niel Jones on the phone.
He knew exactly what I was dealing with and explained how his die deals with it.

He needs 3 cases prepped and 3 months lead time.

This will be a benefit next season, but glad to have a fix in the pipeline.

I do like the Harrell floor being machine down. Not sure where to have that done, but will dwell on it over the winter.

Thanks
 
fishbone said:
This is the problem, or situation, I have no answer for. Maybe it is something to be ignored.
I'm using a Harrell 30br die that uses a floating neck bushing.
After sizing, a bullet offers normal resistance while being seated as the bullet's pressure ring passes through the sized portion of the neck.
As the pressure ring passes the end of the sized area, resistance is reduced and there is a quick drop into place.
The pressure ring is now sitting in an un-sized section of the neck.
The bullet is snug and unmoving.

Why this happens;
A normal .325" neck bushing is being used with outside dimensions of 3/8" long and 1/2" dia.
The sized length of the neck area is .225"
The pressure ring is seated .350" deep. Those two measurements are approx.
That right there is the problem.

I know of no way to adjust the size length or depth.
The bullet seating is at JT. BIB 115-7.

My thinking is that seating within the sized area would be better for accuracy, or at least not hamper it.

Your thoughts please.
Click to expand...

I would say, if it shoots good, go for it. Make sure not to tell the barrel though.
Later
Dave
 
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