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chappo555
Guest
The most significant step in reloading is the first step you take from the reloading bench and having that feeling that youve put together the best rounds you can with your equipment and experience.
mike in co, please read before responding. This makes you look foolish.
"Which step contributes most with visible improved match results in order of preference."
"Which step contributes most with visible improved match results in order of preference."
Here we go with the wind again, Nader go to www.pa1000 yard.com we have more wind flags closer to the benches, with daisy wheels and the best have tryied to figure it out. you can only watch so many thigs and still be able to shoot! So you better have the reloading down first to make sure your bullets fly in the wind. That part is more about stabilization, still say it's neck tention, and seating depth.
Joe Salt
Joe Salt
M
mike in co
Guest
no it does not make me look foolish....
you just do not understand that different disciplines require different accuracy.....
they guy later lists three disciplines and wants one answer...i do not think there is one answer.....
please engage your brain before posting.
very little work is required to produce accurate ammo for "tactical" shooting...some guys shoot factory ammo.....
its is in fact trying to compare apples to oranges to pears......it aint gonna happen.
i doubt you could get everyone to agree on THE one step in br ammo making .....
mike in co
you just do not understand that different disciplines require different accuracy.....
they guy later lists three disciplines and wants one answer...i do not think there is one answer.....
please engage your brain before posting.
very little work is required to produce accurate ammo for "tactical" shooting...some guys shoot factory ammo.....
its is in fact trying to compare apples to oranges to pears......it aint gonna happen.
i doubt you could get everyone to agree on THE one step in br ammo making .....
mike in co
M
mike in co
Guest
your qualification that this is for NEW members, starting out....kinda makes your list a waste of time....
abeginer needs to work on basics before looking to FINE tune his loads/technique.
none of that stuff should be done by a beginer with limited funds......with the exception of case trimming....
so by limiting the discussion you have provided your own answer...
the rest are not BEGINNER tasks.
again just my opinion of what you asked...
mike in co
abeginer needs to work on basics before looking to FINE tune his loads/technique.
none of that stuff should be done by a beginer with limited funds......with the exception of case trimming....
so by limiting the discussion you have provided your own answer...
the rest are not BEGINNER tasks.
again just my opinion of what you asked...
mike in co
A
Andy B
Guest
chappo 555 nailed it .. .. refer to that response in everything and good results will come with it. Without confidence, nothing will work, No matter what discipline or how little /or/ much money is spent.
Andy B
Andy B
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dbridges
Guest
My response is based on the disciplines mentioned, for people with limited funds...
Take trimming off the list. Everyone should own a case trimmer anyway. How else do you keep your cases at a safe length and at the cost of a lee trimmer at the cheap end of the spectrum there are no excuses.
For F-Class I've found consistent charge weights to be the most important so good scales first up on the list.
Next is a high, consistent neck tension and that can be had on the cheap with a modified lee collet die (turn the mandrel down a lot and replace the die locking ring) plus a K&M VLD chamfer tool.
In terms of bang for your buck that will get you there.
Take trimming off the list. Everyone should own a case trimmer anyway. How else do you keep your cases at a safe length and at the cost of a lee trimmer at the cheap end of the spectrum there are no excuses.
For F-Class I've found consistent charge weights to be the most important so good scales first up on the list.
Next is a high, consistent neck tension and that can be had on the cheap with a modified lee collet die (turn the mandrel down a lot and replace the die locking ring) plus a K&M VLD chamfer tool.
In terms of bang for your buck that will get you there.
I stick by my answer and in reference to the original post...please try to break it. Pay attention to all these and understand their place and effect on ammunition and things will fall in place. Add the additional variables for a specifice discipline and all will be well.
Hovis
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mike in co
Guest
but...you did not answer HIS question( un answerable in my opinion)
three of your items are not on HIS LIST....bullet. primer cases
will you agree that from HIS LIST...there is no ONE ANSWER for three disciplines ??
mike in co
three of your items are not on HIS LIST....bullet. primer cases
will you agree that from HIS LIST...there is no ONE ANSWER for three disciplines ??
mike in co
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mike in co
Guest
John Kielly
Shari's fan club
I think the main issue facing shooters with basic equipment is case trimming & chamfering.
I've noticed many instances where rudimentary chamfering tools are applied at an angle to the case neck, resulting in uneven chamfering which often leave sharp dags of brass on the case neck which can damage the projectile & lead to erratic neck friction. On another forum, one shooter submitted these images of the ultimate worst instance of this.
If I knew then what I know now, my first case prep rig would have been a Wilson case trimmer with a VLD chamfering attachment.
I've noticed many instances where rudimentary chamfering tools are applied at an angle to the case neck, resulting in uneven chamfering which often leave sharp dags of brass on the case neck which can damage the projectile & lead to erratic neck friction. On another forum, one shooter submitted these images of the ultimate worst instance of this.
If I knew then what I know now, my first case prep rig would have been a Wilson case trimmer with a VLD chamfering attachment.
Pete Wass
Well-known member
On Annealed cases:
Actually, you probably will find you can maintain more and more consistent neck tension with annealed cases. As case necks are worked they become harder and take on a memory that is more and more difficult to change as the necks are worked. Lets say the necks take on the memory of being fully open out to the chamber walls, it will be darn near impossible to make them not want to be out there, regardless of how much we scrunch them down. The softer necks, on the other hand, will pretty much stay at where they are scrunched and give good and consistent neck tension.
IMHO
Actually, you probably will find you can maintain more and more consistent neck tension with annealed cases. As case necks are worked they become harder and take on a memory that is more and more difficult to change as the necks are worked. Lets say the necks take on the memory of being fully open out to the chamber walls, it will be darn near impossible to make them not want to be out there, regardless of how much we scrunch them down. The softer necks, on the other hand, will pretty much stay at where they are scrunched and give good and consistent neck tension.
IMHO
M
mike in co
Guest
not on his list...try again...
lol
like i said i dounbt there is one answer to three disciplines for new kids on a budget...
lyman vld inside neck reamer is about 12 bucks...but it aint on his list...unless one wants to sneak it in as part of trimming...
mike in co
lol
like i said i dounbt there is one answer to three disciplines for new kids on a budget...
lyman vld inside neck reamer is about 12 bucks...but it aint on his list...unless one wants to sneak it in as part of trimming...
mike in co
mike in co,
At which point in his post does he mention "dangerous game" or "varmints"? If you're saying that you did read the original post, there are problems with your reading skills. I stand corrected on calling you foolish. It's most likely a reading comprehension issue. I am sorry.
Regards,
davejones
At which point in his post does he mention "dangerous game" or "varmints"? If you're saying that you did read the original post, there are problems with your reading skills. I stand corrected on calling you foolish. It's most likely a reading comprehension issue. I am sorry.
Regards,
davejones
Vern
Morethan1waytoskinacat
John Kielly,
Interesting pictures.
Maybe I am missing something but, it seems that based only on these pics that it is not the chamfer which seems to be fairly uniform but rather the roughness of the inside of the case neck. Maybe I am not seeing what you are talking about correctly but in the 2nd pic the chamfer seems smooth, uniform and shinny but the inside of the case neck looks like somebody tried to ream the inside of the neck and didnt do a good job leaving it looking like sand paper.
What in the world is up the the bullet in pic 3?
How does it relate to the chamfer?
Interesting pictures.
Maybe I am missing something but, it seems that based only on these pics that it is not the chamfer which seems to be fairly uniform but rather the roughness of the inside of the case neck. Maybe I am not seeing what you are talking about correctly but in the 2nd pic the chamfer seems smooth, uniform and shinny but the inside of the case neck looks like somebody tried to ream the inside of the neck and didnt do a good job leaving it looking like sand paper.
What in the world is up the the bullet in pic 3?
How does it relate to the chamfer?
M
mike in co
Guest
are you actually over 6 years of age ???
he did not mention the TYPE of shooting involved in the original question. ( that shows up in post 14). type of shooting is significant.
please note his name is londonHUNTER.....NOT BENCHRESTBOB.
and no i am not foolish, nor do i have an issue with reading comprehension.
what is nice is that everytime you post, the world gets a very clear look at your lack of skills.
is your lunch packed ?? i think i hear the school bus honking for you.
mike in co
he did not mention the TYPE of shooting involved in the original question. ( that shows up in post 14). type of shooting is significant.
please note his name is londonHUNTER.....NOT BENCHRESTBOB.
and no i am not foolish, nor do i have an issue with reading comprehension.
what is nice is that everytime you post, the world gets a very clear look at your lack of skills.
is your lunch packed ?? i think i hear the school bus honking for you.
mike in co
B
Bob Pastor
Guest
London Hunter,
Everything on your list is important, in addition to all the other suggestions made. There isn't ONE SINGLE most important phase of prep. on your ammo. It all matters. Most top shooters will do anything including lighting candles and praying to the wind gods, if it gives them better results. The bottom line is: Do everything you can to insure consistency in each and every match round you load. Never skip any step that crosses your mind, because the day you miss just one step, is the day you've wasted going to the range.
Everything on your list is important, in addition to all the other suggestions made. There isn't ONE SINGLE most important phase of prep. on your ammo. It all matters. Most top shooters will do anything including lighting candles and praying to the wind gods, if it gives them better results. The bottom line is: Do everything you can to insure consistency in each and every match round you load. Never skip any step that crosses your mind, because the day you miss just one step, is the day you've wasted going to the range.
Vern
Morethan1waytoskinacat
I sort of agree with Bob.
While I dont think any one thing by itself would be a winner it is a combination of basics with the possibility of others added to it.
I will list my opinion based on supposed evidence of past advances and group changes in the sport as a whole
NECK TURNING - This was one of the biggest changes in the past,,, maybe now with different brass we can go as jackie said to no turn necks.... maybe but ....
CASE TRIMMING - I think Jack Neary provided ample experience-evidence for this to be a critical issue
TRYING TO ACCURATELY THROW POWDER ACCURATE TO WITHIN 0.01 GRAIN
there is much debate to this but at any rate consistency is critical to whatever level.
CONCENTRICITY MANIPULATION AFTER SEATING Many think this is critical. In 2 popular books by 2 HOF shooter there are 2 diff opinions. Mike says absolutely Tony says no. I think that if you try to bend or straighten it, that its worthless. You decide.
WEIGHT SORT CASES this was one of those in the past things that may have made a great difference then based on the brass being used at that time
MEOPLAT TRIMMING while I personally think this would be valueable for short range br no one else does it seems to be relegated to LR BR at this point but then most SRBR bullets are pretty consistant
ANNEALING seems to only be valuable for cases that require a lot of work to be formed to the final case or those (maybe me) who want to make brass last longer rather than make more.
Just an opinion like most of the others I just tried to make mine based on history and provable advances in the sport.
So in short the 1st - 2 1/2 are accepted across the board in most COMPETITION SPORTS
While I dont think any one thing by itself would be a winner it is a combination of basics with the possibility of others added to it.
I will list my opinion based on supposed evidence of past advances and group changes in the sport as a whole
NECK TURNING - This was one of the biggest changes in the past,,, maybe now with different brass we can go as jackie said to no turn necks.... maybe but ....
CASE TRIMMING - I think Jack Neary provided ample experience-evidence for this to be a critical issue
TRYING TO ACCURATELY THROW POWDER ACCURATE TO WITHIN 0.01 GRAIN
there is much debate to this but at any rate consistency is critical to whatever level.
CONCENTRICITY MANIPULATION AFTER SEATING Many think this is critical. In 2 popular books by 2 HOF shooter there are 2 diff opinions. Mike says absolutely Tony says no. I think that if you try to bend or straighten it, that its worthless. You decide.
WEIGHT SORT CASES this was one of those in the past things that may have made a great difference then based on the brass being used at that time
MEOPLAT TRIMMING while I personally think this would be valueable for short range br no one else does it seems to be relegated to LR BR at this point but then most SRBR bullets are pretty consistant
ANNEALING seems to only be valuable for cases that require a lot of work to be formed to the final case or those (maybe me) who want to make brass last longer rather than make more.
Just an opinion like most of the others I just tried to make mine based on history and provable advances in the sport.
So in short the 1st - 2 1/2 are accepted across the board in most COMPETITION SPORTS