Looking at a custom rifle build from the other side..

Rustystud

New member
There are many pet peves encountered over and over again in the custom gun building business.

First, is the customer who really has no idea what he wants. He can't make up his mind. He really does not know what he needs. He just has a egotistical desire to have the bigest, badest, and newest technology.

Second, he takes advice from those he does not know and does not know their skills and knowledge set. A large amount of published materials in gun publications is written by a writer with a financial interest vs a getting the facts to the reader. First hand experience is the absolute teacher. Again the best advice is from someone else who has already been there and gotten the preverbial T shirt.

Third, quality comes with a price. There is a great deal of labor and material cost in building a custom rifle. Many folks wanting a custom rifle balk when confronted with the cost. Nothing is more insulting to a custom gun maker to have a customer try to haggle and knit pic over cost. When you get your gunsmith insulted or pissed off the whole process goes down hill.

Fourth, Customers who change their minds or back out after the project is underway.

There are many quality custom gun builders, most have the deepest respect for each others work. There are always going to be a couple of cut-throats out there. The usually don't last more the a year or two and their skills and business practices are exploited. The gun forums are an informative medium.

I will venture to say 90% of the experienced gunsmiths who build custom rifles can talk with a customer for 15 minutes and determine if they want to take on the customer's project. Building a custom rifle is building a life long relationship. Good gunsmiths don't have to advertise as their work speaks for itself. There is nothing worse than a "know it all" customer. If the customer knows it all then why doesn't he build his own rifle.

Custom Rifles are exactly that, a rifle built to specifically meet the needs of that customer and not anyone else, not even the gunsmith.

My advise to anyone wanting to have a custom rifle built is to think, do your homework, get references from both the product vendors and prior customers, don't take advise but from those you know and respect, listen to your gunsmith, expect to pay a fair price for your custom rifle if you want your rifle of a lifetime, be considerate to your gunsmith, make sure you have a good line of communications before you commit to your project.

Do your part so your gunsmith can do his part.

Nat Lambeth
 
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Nat, I agree with you on many of these points. As someone who has never owned a custom rifle then It is definitely a learning process... It is called getting an education. I have learned a lot from you and others on these forums. Unless you ask you don't... sometimes it hard even knowing what to ask or what not to ask... I think some degree of understanding has to come from both the gunsmith and from the customer. I am trying to do my part by searching out the different components... so far the borden action, Kreiger barrel, pacific tool and guage bottom metal, wyatt outdoors center feed magazine have the nod... still not sure on the cartridge or the stock Mcmillan or Hi tech
 
The Build learning curve..

Communications and understnding are the key components.

Opinions are like rear ends everyone has one.

From the Gunsmiths point of view meeting the customers expectations is the goal. Lack of experience can be a cruel teacher.

The hardware is almost accademic. For a hunting rifle most of all the customs actions are a step well above the factory action. There is a lot of thought and experience in getting different vendors components to work together.

Whether it be Jerry Stiller's, Jim Borden's, John Pierce's, Jim Kelbly's or any of the other fine custom actions, it is the people behind them that have made them as good as they are. There is a no finer group of folks and all their products fit a particular niche. I have built rifles on all of the above listed and would feel comfortable recomending any and all of them.

GUN NUT as we discussed the final decisions are yours, you are the one who is the customer. You are paying for someones services and advice to make you a life long investment. The gunsmith does not see many hunting rifles after they are finished and delivered. Generally a barrel will last a lifetime in a hunting rifle.

Nat Lambeth
 
Looking at a custom rifle build from the other side... Customers comment...

Rustystud, I absolutely agree You! Also I realise that oversea customers are minority here but here's some tips for custom gun builders and customers to avoid some nasty issues...
- Have Your order allways written... e-mail is just fine. Keep the e-mails!
- Have Your order allways written... e-mail is just fine
- Make sure both parties understand what is written in order
- If customer changes his/hers minds, have it in written and accepted with builder
- Building times are allways estimations or the best quesses and sometimes it's worth of wait...
- Before shipping the precious custom build rifle, check what Your have on Your hands and compare it to the order... Double check!!
- Make sure You pay the goods without delays, check that builder has received the payment(-s)
- If the goods are what's written, ship it ... If not... DON'T SHIP IT before customers approval! In real life it's impossible or atleast not practical for customer to ship the rig bag to the builder (shipping/exporting costs + taxes are up to 35% of total value)
- If something goes wrong, do not promise anything what You cannot keep!
- Happy customer is Your best marketing man/ woman

We are all humans and humans make errors... if that rarely happens, it takes a big hart to admit it and work it through.

No matter how good reputation You have, it takes only one bad experience to loose it all and it's really hard to have it back...
It took me over ten years and only one bad experience to realize all this... and I'm aware of that I'm not the only one...
Regards,

Jari Laulumaa
from the country of penquins and polar bears...
 
Trust is a two way street

I had my first rifle built in the summer of my seventeenth year. It was a 25/06 Curry Magnum. That is simply a 25/06 A. I. with the shoulder bumped froward a tad. I had complete faith in George Curry, my gunsmith and my friend. What he said was gold as far as I was concerned.

The stock is birds eye maple with rosewood pistol grip caps and fore end piece. The action is an FN Mauser Supreme with a Douglas barrel and a Sako trigger. I visited his shop after work often and watched the progress. I often helped George by loading ammo for him.

When he finished the rifle it was a true masterpiece in my eyes and his. Without charge to me, he jeweled the bolt and had the floor plate engraved, To Bill Wynne by George Curry. Today I understand, he enjoyed making that rifle for me as much as I have enjoyed it.

The total cost was $206.00 including the sling and swivels in 1957. It was about half of my summer wages from my job as a carpenter's helper and that was a lot of money to me back then.

Today that rifle is a 280 Remington Improved. George had P. O. Ackley rebore it years latter. I have refinished the stock myself and had the metal parts reblued. I spent more on the reblue job than the original cost of the rifle and never had a second thought about it.

There is not another rifle that can come up to mine in my eyes because a master gunsmith made it just for me. I never hold it or look at it with out memories of the one who made it for me. It has been my prize possession for a lifetime and it shoots just as good today as then.

My suggestion for someone having a custom hunting rifle made for them is to find a gunsmith you trust and and respect and tell him what you think you want and let him build what you really want.

Concho Bill
 
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