Loading At The Range -- Question

L. Costa said:
I put them in plastic cases (3 cases total ) and size them as I go with 100 always ready in case of an emergency....Boyer does not sort (check the book, I even drew the distribution curve.)
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Some follow-up questions:

1. You said you "size them as [you] go with 100 always ready" -- if you always have 100 sized cases, why do you resize at the range? (For purposes of this question, I assume you size at the range; also "at the range" does not include whatever resizing you might do in the evening after having shot all your targets for one day.)

2. To me, a "distribution curve" suggests that something was "sorted"; why was a distribution curve drawn if TB does not sort cases?
 
I preload often, but not always.

I preload generally when I shoot N133; mostly for three reasons:

1) I don't understand that powder very well and when I change something at the range with it, I usually go the wrong direction with it. When I tune a gun and get something that looks like it will work, I preload at least for the first three groups for the next morning; and often for the entire weekend.

2) Plus, when I qualify barrels, I usually find that one that will shoot N133 better than the old "pulled" 8208 that I like to shoot when it gets above 60 degrees.

3) I have found that N133 likes lots of neck tension. It seems (no technical basis, just my personal "theory") that something (galvanic?) happens between the case neck and the bullet jacket when the bullet sits in the case for some time. (Have you ever shot some rounds that you loaded months before that you take out and shoot a little group with later? Hmmm?)

I pre-loaded for the Hog Roast this year and have done so at most of the Eastern Region matches and some of the Super Shoots for the last few years. My smallest aggregate of .1504 was shot at Holton in 2012 with a barrel with over 3,000 rounds on it and pre-loaded N133. I spend the time between targets watching what conditions some of the better shooters are choosing to shoot in.

That being said, I like to shoot "pulled" 8208 when the temperature is high and it seems to like low neck tension. My better groups come usually when I load immediately before the target with that powder. For that exercise, I usually use 25 pieces of thinner-necked brass and load between targets for the entire weekend.

I am constantly running new brass through my rifles by using fire-forming to break in new barrels or as fouling shots before a group. Luckily, I have been using the same reamer for over 12 years and my gunsmith has chambered barrels to the same headspace since I started using him in 1996. I replace brass that starts to "click at the top" or looks like it has no annealing left at the shoulder when I get three firings on the new brass and it is trimmed to at least .0010 below the max trim length for my reamer. I have used Ron Hoehn prepped brass forat least 12 years. (I'm not even sure where my brass trimmer is in my basement shop.)

As Larry Costa said above, sometimes we do things that aren't quite conventional wisdom, but have been developed over years and seem to work okay.
 
Hunter,
I size as I go when not pressed, otherwise I use the pre-sized stuff. I never like to rush at a match. Like to have time to think: load, wind, timing, lunch, etc. I don't size at night. Sometimes I do have a scotch.....
The distribution curve is there so that those of you that do sort know what to expect. If you read the chapter you'll see that.
Hope that helps.
Larry
 
When I was shooting with my benchrest friends, I tried reloading at the range twice at their insistence. I had a lot of trouble. My main problem was that the electronic scale had an auto shut off feature and it would always shut off when I needed it most. I don't know if I will ever shoot benchrest like I did, as my mentor Jon has passed away, and to make matters worse we shot at his range, and it is not available anymore. How ever with all of my guns I can see that loading at the range makes finding a load WAY easier, and I would like to learn how to do it even if I never shoot the 6PPC again (I will shoot it cause it makes lil itty bitty groups and I just cant get enough of that). Could someone post pictures of their setups and explain how they use what they brought? I plan on going to see Col. Billy (he built several of my rifles) shoot Manatee next Feb ( Ive been planning this for several years, but I am much healthier now) and will talk to people and watch loading there.
 
A friend uses a scale just to check his charges so that they vary by less than +-.1 It is one of the Hornady electronic jobs, and he uses a cheap plastic domed lid of some sort, that he can read the scale through. If the charge is off, he dumps it back in the hopper. This is with 133. He modified the baffle in his small Harrell measure (I leave mine out) and I helped him with throwing technique, and most of his charges pass the scale test, and are dumped into his cases with a funnel, out of the scale pan.

Recently, he has switched to LT32 and that is so easy to stay close enough with that I have told him that except for checking at the beginning of a run, that he does not need to weigh each charge.

For myself, due to TV being boring, I have invested a lot of spare time in learning how to throw 133. For anyone else that is not so inclined (almost the entire shooting world) simply resorting to a RCBS Chargemaster and battery pack is the easy out, not perfect, but for short range, I think good enough.

For those occasions when I am working up a load for a rifle that I will be preloading, I have a "wind box" that shields my tuned up balance scale, that has the trickler on the inside, with its handle sticking out of one end. Because it is a bit of a pain to haul back and forth to the range I don't use it much, but when I need it it, is good to have.

I have seen a lot of matches won by shooters who threw their charges. Staying in tune, and being sharp on what the flags are telling you have more to do with the outcome than a tenth of a grain of powder. With all of the details involved, I think that one needs to figure out what the most important ones are, and concentrate on getting them right.
 
Boyd Allen said:
For myself, due to TV being boring, I have invested a lot of spare time in learning how to throw 133. For anyone else that is not so inclined (almost the entire shooting world) simply resorting to a RCBS Chargemaster and battery pack is the easy out, not perfect, but for short range, I think good enough.


.
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Boyd, get yourself a RCBS 1500 Chargemaster and eliminate all the variables of powder throwing.

If you can show proof where a variation in accuracy can be detected by less than the 0.1 grain the RCBS throws, I'm listening.

As to TV trash I'll fully agree. Even the 24/7 news channels don't show news anymore......ever wonder why??


Grif, I hope we are helping you figure this benchrest thing out....then you can explain it to me.
 
What is your opinion

Dusty Stevens said:
My cases weigh the same. And before you ask yes i do have a scale that can weigh them. I buy top quality bullets- i know their process so no need to weigh bullets. And ive been using the same measure for 17yrs- all i do is spot check on a gem scale. Yes sorted cases make a difference- ask anybody that wins. You throw a case that weighs 1/2gr different in a group of 10 and youll find it at the most inopportune time.
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on why differences in case weight affect groups? Is it a volume difference or something else?

Thanks,

Pete
 
I forgot to mention a couple of things earlier. When I get to a match with my 300 cases they have all been fired the same number of times so the neck tension is the same for all the cases. At this point the cases have only been fired 6 times this year.. Remember that the more times you size a case the more you work-harden the case neck, slightly changing the neck tension every time. So when you load and size only 20 cases you end up changing the neck tension as the match progresses. At that point you can either change neck sizing buttons or powder amount or seating depth to keep up. I prefer to change loads only for weather conditions. The next point is that even if I fire all my 300 cases at a match I still can wait to get home to trim. If I brought them okay, then one more firing makes it a null point.
Please understand that I have nothing against weight sorted cases, but as Dave said earlier when do you weigh them.?
In fact I have bought weight sorted cases from Ron and will probably do it again if I am in the mood. But I must tell you that I have done extensive testing on this subject and have found that it made no difference.
Larry
 
ebb said:
When I was shooting with my benchrest friends, I tried reloading at the range twice at their insistence. I had a lot of trouble. My main problem was that the electronic scale had an auto shut off feature and it would always shut off when I needed it most. I don't know if I will ever shoot benchrest like I did, as my mentor Jon has passed away, and to make matters worse we shot at his range, and it is not available anymore. How ever with all of my guns I can see that loading at the range makes finding a load WAY easier, and I would like to learn how to do it even if I never shoot the 6PPC again (I will shoot it cause it makes lil itty bitty groups and I just cant get enough of that). Could someone post pictures of their setups and explain how they use what they brought? I plan on going to see Col. Billy (he built several of my rifles) shoot Manatee next Feb ( Ive been planning this for several years, but I am much healthier now) and will talk to people and watch loading there.
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Here's a setup that has worked well. Since I took this picture I've added a fold up 2 X 4 plastic table.

DSCN0091.jpg

DSCN0093.jpg
 
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