Legality of selling a home finished action
- Thread starter FM7RUM
- Start date
antelopedundee
internet bum
Legal or not, it's probably not wise to sell something like that to a stranger.
This is something and a little weird, the intent part.
Looks like it needs a serial number?
https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.c...ll-or-give-my-homemade-gun-another-person.htm
Looks like it needs a serial number?
https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.c...ll-or-give-my-homemade-gun-another-person.htm
antelopedundee
internet bum
Why would an FFL holder want to record a firearm that has an illegitimate serial number? Since you claim to be the maker you would have to have an FFL yourself to even legally produce it I would think. I wouldn't want any traceable money changing hands if twas me.
Unless the laws have changed it has always been legal for anyone other than a felon to make their own. In fact it is probably more popular now than it has been in the past. Especially in my own compeitive shooting sport now having a big variety of investment casting kits to choose and to start from. We also have those who just start out with a block of 8620 I believe it is or something else that is appropriate to use. I do know out where I live any firearm now has to be registered even possibly being home made?
On the other hand who said anything about an illegitimate serial number and how did you come up with that? I believe we're taking about actions that did not have a serial number / being home made for ones own personal use.
On the other hand who said anything about an illegitimate serial number and how did you come up with that? I believe we're taking about actions that did not have a serial number / being home made for ones own personal use.
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antelopedundee
internet bum
If it's not traceable to a legally licensed maker it would be illegitmate, no? If it was stolen and used in say a crime then how would that serial number be traced if it wasn't registered somewhere?
classic case of voicing an opinion WITH NO FACTS.
go read the laws then come back.
" legally licensed maker" not! here is a clue ffl not required to make an action.
go read the laws then come back.
" legally licensed maker" not! here is a clue ffl not required to make an action.
adamsgt
Jerry Adams
AFAIK the ATF recommends that you put a serial number on any firearm you make for tracing if it's stolen. If you sell you homemade firearm and put a serial number on it and transfer it through a FFL, the FFL would record the serial number in their book. The serial number would be legitimate. I could engrave or stamp a serial number of GTA2 on a 80% lower I completed and that would be valid and legitimate.
GeneT
Active member
In the United States, per federal law (meaning that if you live in a communist state things might not be as favorable) you may manufacture any sort of firearm that you could otherwise legally own, for your own use. There is no requirement for you to mark it with a serial number or any other marking. That much is black and white, clarified many times over by the BATFE.
If you want to sell / give away such an article, you enter a gray area which basically boils down to intent: did you intend to get rid of said arm when you made it? That would be illegal. If not, it's not illegal. Hard to prove either way.
As I mentioned earlier, there is no requirement (federally) that you mark your home firearm in any way shape or form. However, it'd be dumb not to - having an identifiable marking can only work in your favor in the event of theft. It's not like you have to tell anyone (federally) what that serial number is until you want to. However, as soon as you want to transfer said Title 1 arm through an FFL it will have to have all the federally requisite markings - serial number, manufacturer's name, city, state, maybe some other stuff I don't recall, all engraved at least 0.003" deep and in a font larger than some specified minimum. That's because your FFL will have to fill out some of that information in their forms. You can legally mark it with your (you being the maker) name, city, state, and serial of your choice and that will suffice.
Which is a long way of saying it is absolutely legitimate to make and own a firearm that isn't traceable to a licensed manufacturer (said license being only necessary to manufacture for the purpose of sale).
All that is federal law. State law may impose additional restrictions. Most states do not, but a few do.
GsT
adamsgt
Jerry Adams
If you made the gun and put a serial number on it and the gun was stolen then you would report the stolen firearm with the serial number you put on it. Where the crap hits the fan is if you try to make and sell too many guns without a manufacturers license. A one off shouldn't be a problem.
Not sure now with all the Putter's in the late 70's thru early 90's I worked for a large wholesaler and on occasion we would get a call from a ATF concerning a weapon that we had received from them and they wanting to know to whom it was sold.
If it was sold to a stocking dealer then they too would be called ---if sold to Joh Q. Public the trail ended there
From what the ATF told me @ that time once the firearm reached a NON FFL holder the trail went cold
Jim
If it was sold to a stocking dealer then they too would be called ---if sold to Joh Q. Public the trail ended there
From what the ATF told me @ that time once the firearm reached a NON FFL holder the trail went cold
Jim
Lee Martin
Active member
My dad has been building actions for himself since the 80's. He researched the legality and to echo what has been said above:
1) You can manufacture a receiver for yourself. No serial number is required
2) If you want to transfer the receiver, you need a manufactuer's license. The action then would have to be serial numbered
3) The transfer would then go through the normal FFL channels.
-Lee
www.singleactions.com
1) You can manufacture a receiver for yourself. No serial number is required
2) If you want to transfer the receiver, you need a manufactuer's license. The action then would have to be serial numbered
3) The transfer would then go through the normal FFL channels.
-Lee
www.singleactions.com
Bill Wynne
Active member
Just my thoughts
It is sometimes easier to ask for forgiveness than to get permission.
It is sometimes easier to ask for forgiveness than to get permission.
Centerfire
Member
Possible input for your question
In America's Freedom magazine August 2020 page 16-17 there is inforfmation that might be revelant to you. The article by Clayton Cramer is titled "What's all this hype about "Ghost Guns"?
Centerfire
In America's Freedom magazine August 2020 page 16-17 there is inforfmation that might be revelant to you. The article by Clayton Cramer is titled "What's all this hype about "Ghost Guns"?
Centerfire
NO.
You can make as many rifles or handguns as you want for personal use.
Some states try and control this.
You can then sell the gun as long as you did NOT make it with anticipation of selling it.
It does not need a serial number.
I have multiple guns that have "NSN" (No Serial Number) on their paperwork.
Some are old, others are various home built guns.
Guns did not requires a serial number before GCA '68.
Though many had them anyway.
antelopedundee
internet bum
IIRC the weapon used in the Florida nightclub shooting was traced rather quickly. They see it was made by BadAss Arms so they call BadAss Arms and BadAss says, oh we shipped that to distributor ABC, so they call ABC who says oh we sold that to DumDon's Gun shop so they call DumDon's who says yeah we sold it to Wuhan Smirnoff who as it turns out was the shooter. Easier to trace something made recently than made 30 years ago. How long would it take the ATF to search the boxes and boxes of 4473s from a dealer who went OOB more than 30 years ago, assuming that they could even find the boxes and boxes.
Luckily for them the shooters tend to use recently acquired firearms.