Large to Small Primer Pocket Conversion?

R

roninboise

Guest
Hi All;
I just digested Bill Calfee's article in the latest P.S. His experiment with the 6mm Calfee is very similar to a project I am set up to do this winter.
Last summer I purchased a reamer, dies, brass and a short action bolt for building a 243 WSSM Imp.(from a fellow who was disenchanted with his project) It is just a fun project that I am hoping to use as an intermediate range Rock Chuck gun this Spring.
My question is: what would be a good way to bush the primer pockets in the WSSM brass for small primers.

Thanks
Ron in Boise
ronhbr@cableone.net
 
Even if it is possible I can't see that it would be worth the trouble .
I think it would be better to start with a case that has the correct size primer you need.

I would not try to bush the primer pocket with a fixed bush.
I would make a cup you can press the small primer into then press the whole lot in as a large primer.
It is just a thought it may or may not work.
 
Bushing the primer pockets sounds like a really bad idea. The pressure acting on the inside of the cup seals it against the walls of the pocket. What would seal the bushing to the pocket? If you do what you speak of, you will probably get a face full of hot gasses and various other junk.............and possibly spend the rest of your life finding your way around with a red-tipped white cane.

A better idea might be to use large rifle primers.........they work very well in large cases...like yours...where a small primer probably would'nt be enough.

Be Safe,
-Dave-:)
 
primer pocket bushing

Several years ago Remington made up a lot of 308 match brass with the small primer pockets. Its been non-existant for years now, but I purchased about 10 boxes of the match brass for using in my 22 CHeetah. (308 case necked to 224, fire-formed the cases, they looked like an Ackley Improved with 40 degree shoulder. I ordered from (somebody ?)I can't remember now, but I have about 200 of the little buggers at my office warehouse. It was a steel bushing, it bushed the large pocket to the small primier size. It pressed in sing the large primer seater. It fit so tight, you did not have to use sealant, you could de-cap just like it was a natural small primer. The way I found out about them was in an old article by Jim Carmichle (sp) and Fred Huntington.....they were the ones who developed the 22 CHeetah. Using small primers in the case with different powders...I shot smaller groups.....for someone to say its a "bad idea", or its "too much trouble", or "it won't work", would be incorrect as far as my rifle and I were concerned! If there's an interest, I'll try to find out where (the mfgr.) I ordered them from. Thanks for allowing me to express MHO.
GRT338
 
P.S. to orig. post.

Typing so late makes for mistakes. I purchased the Remington WITH the small primer pockets. THey shot enough smaller that I decided to purchase the bushings and use them in Federal Nickel Match cases. They did just as well. I might add...there was never a leak from the primer pockets, ever! Thanks again. GRT338
 
GRT338,

I'm interested, can you please find your source?

I've been following this chimera for 15yrs and have yet to actually SEE the little metal cups :) a quick search showed only this one post from '04 ((( http://www.benchrest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9870&highlight=alinwa+bushing+flash ))) but I've in fact searched repeatedly for a way to bush large primer/large flashhole down to small primer/small flashhole.



My personal need is for this unit with not only the small cup but the small flashhole. The Rem URBR stuff is worthless to me (and I DO have a bunch) because even though it's small primer it has gyNORmous flashholes! It bleeds primer pressure so fast that the CHeetah was always plagued with misfires.



I DO though find my "need" to be less urgent now that Lapua has seen fit to produce small flashhole brass in a larger case, the 6.5X47 configuration. I'd still like to try some in my WSM project though...



al
 
Little bushings?

GRT338 & AL;
Thanks for the feedback.
Don't you just love the nay-sayers with all their non-experimental theory. Anything out of the ordinary sure brings them out of the woodwork.
If you have any of the bushings left over, I would surely buy them from you. I have about 100 cases to do for my project. Also, if you could find the manufacturer, I would contact them.
GRT338, your results seem to mirror Bill Calfee's in his article. I intend to use a lite 69gr bullet and zing it out about as fast as the jacket can stand.
I have been chambering my own HBR & VFS barrels for several years now and have done well with them in competition in the NW. I also build my own Live Varmint rifles and actually took one to a 600 yard match in Wa. several years ago and won the whole ball game with it so it isn't like I'm sawing away with a file and bent screwdriver.

Thanks again to the real innovators and to the nay-sayers; maybe Chicken Little was right.

Ron in Boise
 
Does not surprise me that some one has made some cups up.
Be interesting to see how well they fit.
Who are the nay-sayers with non experimental theory? You have not proved it will even work properly yet!

Remember why you are trying to change the primer size in the first place ! Just beause it will go bang does not mean you have improved anything.
No body said it would " not work " but will it give you the advantage of a small primer and flahhole ?
The Hindinburg worked but it was a real bad idea?
 
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roninboise said:
GRT338 & AL;
Thanks for the feedback.
Don't you just love the nay-sayers with all their non-experimental theory. Anything out of the ordinary sure brings them out of the woodwork.
Click to expand...

Ron in Boise
Click to expand...

Ron,

First, please excuse me for being concerned about your safety and the safety of others who might try what is posted here.

I have to say, though, that YOU are the one who HAS NOT EVEN TRIED the large primers in this application yet!

Your reactive answer to what you didn't want to hear does not make me a non-experimental theorist.

I'm positive that I've done more experimenting in the past week than, well....Lets just say that if I wanted to try what you are considering, I'd have just done it.................I would not have came here for advice.

Again, be safe...
-Dave-:)
 
The boys who shot 219 Wasps did the same thing years ago. When Federal came out with the 30 American ( 30-30 cases with small rifle primer ) I bought a ton of them and went to work on all my Wasps because everyone said the small rifle primer is more accurate. Well, I couldn't tell so I contacted those behind the 30 American case. There findings were the same as mine, no better accuracy but the SD was a lot smaller.

Jeff Aberegg
 
I believe that the original steel primer pocket bushings were made for the .454 pistol cartridge by Freedom Arms . http://www.freedomarms.com/

I always wanted to load some cases with primer flash tubes . I purchased the tubing from www.specialshapes.com .They supply brass , steel and ss steel tubing and shapes to the hobby industry . Possibly you could use some of this tubing to reduce the flash hole of the small primer Remington Br basic brass and make pocket bushings for the other cases. I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has experimented with primer flash tubes as in " Gibbs Cartridges and Front Ignition Loading Technique " ( chapter six ) Wolfe Publishing by Roger Stowers.

Glenn:D
 
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I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has experimented with primer flash tubes
Click to expand...

I believe Dick Casull is your man...........He did some experimenting with this technology in a rifle he developed after he sold his pistol development to Freedom Arms.

I met him at the SHOT show a few years ago and had a long talk about it. He feels it wasn't worth the effort in the end........But it did show promise.

My only concern about small primers in a WSSM, is that it might be too much powder to try and ignite with a SRP. But I'd love to know how it works out as I'm building a 243 WSSM with fast twist barrel for 300 yd Egg Shoots.
I just bought a bunch of 6.5 X 47 Lapua to play around with simply because it has small primers. And I have a ton of "BR" brass that I made 6mm Ackley cases out of, but I could tell no difference in accuracy from LRP cases......

But it's fun to play around with this stuff, isn't it!

I also have a bunch of this stuff......Can you say "90,000 psi!" With no head expansion..............:)

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To: roninboise & Alinwa..

To Alinwa, sorry , but the bushings I am have are on that, bushings. Not cups that you are looking for with smaller flash-holes.
TO roninboise, if you will go to the Nosler forum website, you can look me up and PM me. (personal message) I would be happy to dig out what bushings I have left and mail them to you at no charge. I gave the CHeetah away to a very close friend who still shoots it today. You are more than welcome to the 100+ I have remaining.

Just PM me on that website(Under Reloading) and I will e-mail you back. We can send PM via our regular e-mails to get your address. I know I have them, as I just ran across them the other day.

Again sorry to Alinwa, and I hope you find what you're looking for. Again, after "bushing" the large pockets with the bushing, to make small pockets, there never was "primer leak". Never had the first problem. I do think it was FreedomArms, but can't be for sure til I find the package. Look forward to hearing from you soon. And, thanks again. GRT338
 
GRT338,


Thank you for your reply :) Your findings regarding just bushing the primer pocket mirror my own, they don't leak or anything. I've just played with cut off hunks of mild steel tubing and drilled sleeves and there's no bad effects that I can see, other than them being a PITA.


But YUP it's the flashholes I'm looking for :) I've also tried to get some good brass with undrilled holes, blind pockets........I tried to get Kaltron Pettibone to run interference for me and get 10,000 cases yanked off the belt before flashholes were drilled but they felt that liability issues prohibited it.


But then they came out with the 6.5X47 brass.........yeaayyyy!!!


thanxagain



al
 
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