Keyholeing Problem with Remington 22-250

I just picked up today a box of #22271 Hornady 55 GR V-MAX to try in a new Tikka T3 Varmint which is said to have a 1:14 twist. I guess when I get a weekend the wind doesn't have the trees laying over, I'll find out. I've just started loading for this rifle and it shot 52gr Sierra MK's in front of Varget great last saturday through a virgin barrel. Was shooting 1/4" groups at 100yds and 1/2" groups at 200 until I got up to max loads. Either it didn't like those or the barrel was getting fouled.

Gonna try these because I've read the flat base bullet shoot better in the 22-250 and hopeing it will shoot a 55 grain bullet. I know that suppose to be about the max, so will see.
 
Ehkempf: I am currently shooting 7 (seven) Varminters made by the Remington Arms Corporation in caliber 22-250 Remington.
I have been shooting other Remington Rifles in caliber 22-250 Remington since "day one" (introduced in 1965) and never to my knowledge have any of the projectiles I shot in any of these Rifles keyholed.
My current Remington 700 VLSS has shot the Nosler 55 grain Ballistic Tips very well in the past. I now shoot the Speer 52 grain hollow-point flat base bullets in this Rifle for Coyote pelt friendliness reasons.
In August of this year I bought a new Remington 700 SPS-V in caliber 22-250 Remington. I have just started doing load testing with this latest 22-250 but it shoots the 55 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips rather well indeed.
Right now the Rifle has a 36 power "load testing scope" on it - my last two groups (5 shots at 100 yards) with this bullet (55 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips) measured .344" and .420" respectively. This was on a dead calm day with some mirage at hand.
Over the years many of my other 22-250's have shot well with the wonderful 55 grain Nosler bullets.
I tend to think your "patterns" are the fault of something other than Remingtons 1 in 14" twist rate.
I do not know what that could be though - as you relay your results with 50 grain bullets are acceptable.
Hmmm.... I am stumped for now.
Be sure to let us know if you achieve improvement with the 55 grainers.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
 
55's stabalize in a 14 twist...look elsewhere for your problem.
 
Look elsewhere

keithcandler said:
55's stabalize in a 14 twist...look elsewhere for your problem.
Click to expand...

Yep. I've experienced keyholing with an eroded throat and a muzzle problem.

Getting back to 55's will stabilize. I've fought that based on Sg, but I think the polymer tip has to be taken out of the equation, which if you measure the length of the jacket instead of the total length of the bullet, the Sg would suggest the bullet will stabilize in a 1:14 twist. The polymer material is so light it may be inconsequential(?). I subtracted the plastic tip off the length of the 55 gr Nosler BT and used that length in the formula and 1:14 passes. Of course higher velocities, warmer temperatures, and higher altitudes don't hurt either. - nhk
 
nhkuehl said:
I don't have a .22-250 or 1:14 twist barrel, but I wanted to shoot a load that was Sg 0.80 or less so I loaded a .224 68 gr BTHP (.985" long) at 2616 fps and fired it in a 1:12 barrel. The Sg, unadjusted for temperature and elevation was 0.69; adjusted for 70 degrees and 4800 elevation the Sg was 0.84. I fired 10 rounds at a 28" square at 200m and 8 of 10 rounds hit the target and those 8 were 17" across. All the holes were oblong as you can see by three closest together ones that I scanned (pic attached). Besides keyholing, an unstable bullet will not group. The manufacturer's recommended twist for that bullet is 1:10 (Sg 1.00) to 1:7 (Sg 2.03)

Now I'm going out on a limb and say a stablized bullet can still keyhole, but it will group (second picture). Those groups were shot from the right twist, at the right velocity, through a barrel that had a defect. - nhk
Click to expand...

The group is shocking, actually.

Imagine the hole in the coyote, when that bullet hit going sideways.
 
Yes, I agree: look elsewhere for your problem, and if your 22-250 has had more than approx. 2000 rounds down the bore I would suspect a shot out barrel. I had a Remington 22-250 that began to keyhole an occassional shot, then became progressively worse to the point of almost every round having a perfect side profile of the bullet at 100 yds. Did not have a borescope at that time, rebarrelled with a Hart, and of course the same loads that were used in the Remington barrel, same 1-14 twist, were once again extremely accurate. Cut the Remington barrel in half lengthwise and was shocked to see the destruction in the throat at a documented 2400 rounds.
 
F d shuster: If you could enlighten me on the handloads you used in your Remington 22-250?
What I would like to know is - would YOU consider those 2,400 rounds you put through the factory barrel to have been "hottish Loads" - "moderate loads" - mild loads.
I have a couple of factory Remingtons closing in on 2,000 rounds right now.
Thanks in advance
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
 
VarmintGuy: The entire life of the Remington Barrel ( a chrome moly) was the traditional 38 grs. of H380 with 50 gr. bullets like the V-Max for groundhogs, and 53 gr. Sierra's #1400 for target work. All firing was slow, single load. A second barrel, a Hart 1-14 also, with the same load combination, also lasted approx. 2400 rds. The third barrel, yet another 1-14, this one a stainless Shilen, same load, had the start of some serious fire-cracking at 900 rounds, as seen with my Hawkeye. I can't prove it for all 22-250 chamberings, but for mine, their useful life was in the 2200 to 2400 range.
 
F d shuster: Thank you very much for your answer/observations - they are very much appreciated. I guess I better start saving some money for a barrel replacement.
Thanks again
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
 
First off let me say thanks to all that have replied to the original thread that I started with the following question:

“I have a question about using either Hornady V-Max or Nosler Ballistic Tip 55 grain bullets in a Remington 22-250 with a 1-14 twist. I have both a Remington 700 VLSS and a 700 SPS Varmint, both with 1-14 twist. They both seem to shoot 50 grain Hornady and Nosler bullets fine, but when it comes to the 55 grain it looks like a shotgun pattern at 100 yards. In fact at 25 yards with the Hornady factory 55 grain loads it keyholes. I was just at Hart Barrels, and while talking to Jim Hart he said that it was do to the longer length of the bullets with plastic tips not being able to stabilize in a 1-14 twist. Has anyone else experience this problem? If it is a know fact why doesn’t Remington make the 22-250 with a 1-12 twist?”

Maybe it wasn’t clear but rifles are brand new with no problems to the crowns. So the barrels are not shot out and the crown is in no way affecting bullet flight. I have not reloaded any 55 grain bullets since 10/17/10. Both available time and the weather have caused me to wait until probably the spring. I was using 55gr Nosler BT, with Hornady brass, and Federal 205M primers. I tried loads with 34.6, 35.0, 35.5, and 36.0 of Varget, and 34.0 of H4895, all would not group under 2.5 -3.0 in at 100 yards. The reason that I mentioned Jim Hart was that since he is well known in the barrel making world that his opinion should mean something. I want to try Hornady’s new 53gr V-Max bullet, so I emailed them a question about suggested twist rate for the new bullet and they came back with the answer of a 1-12 or faster, so that leaves out the 22-250 with a 1-14.

I never realized that the original question would generate so much input, and I thank all of you that replied. Like I said I will do some more load development, in the months ahead, but so far the 50gr V-Max and Nosler BT with 36.7 gr of Varget have produced the best results.

Thanks,

Ed
 
Has anyone actually measured the twist of the rifles? It would not be outside of the realm of possibility that there was an error in the twist that was built into the mandrel that is used to hammer forge the barrels. Heck, one time I saw a brand new model 70, that showed evidence of being test fired, that arrived with a shiny smooth bore...no rifling.
 
Boyd Allen: I also have been the recipient of a factory arm that came with a shiney bore and no rifling!
Cept I was dumb enough to head for my range with the arm in question (a S&W revolver in caliber 17 HMR Model 647) and fire it 18 times.
Upon the first shot I immediately felt stinging in my cheeks and again at each shot - and I was puzzled why my projectiles did not show up on the "big" target at 30' distant.
Not to worry I (the fool) just switched ammo and resumed firing over my "X" type sandbags and still at each shot felt a sharp stinging in my cheeks.
I assumed the stinging was "sand" being blown back at me from a leak in my X bag.
I was wrong - at the 18th shot I noticed a grouping of "keyholed" projectiles in the wood frame of the huge target stantions.
Only then did I begin an inspection of my munitions and my pistol. It took me MANY minutes of intense scrutiny to get an inkling of my "trouble".
I could see NO rifling in the bore.
I headed home in my vehicle only then noticing blood speckling my cold cheeks (it was Christmas time in SW MOntana and around 10 degrees) in my image in the rear view mirror.
At home I engaged use of my Wally Siebert Bore Inspection Tool and nearly gagged.
I had been shooting copper clad bullets down an unrifled bore - in other words there were HIGH PRESSURES and shrapnel dispersing from the bullets having no room in which to expand. They were probably just "lengthening" a tad as they ripped into the "bore"!
The fine folks at S&W apologized both in written form and in the form of a personal phone call to my home from their head of production!
He promised a flaw free revolver to be in my hands shortly and it was.
By the way the replacement revolver is so accurate and smooth of operation that I had contemplated buying another one for my son.
I think they may have discontinued them though.
My point is - yes factories (humans) make mistakes and I thouroughly inspect my arms nowadays before purchase and again AFTER purchase and prior to firing.
I can only imagine what may have occurred had you shot that Winchester Rifle with no rifling?
The evidence you mention of that Rifle been fired at the factory is puzzling to me?
Maybe Ehkempf should have his bore inspected with a "HawkEye type optical device.
Still if it shoots slightly lighter bullets WELL then I doubt if there is a crown or rifling problem.
By the way my S&W came with an envleope containing a couple of fired 17 HMR casings (to abide by some California law in effect back then). So someone "fired" the riflingless pistol back at the factory - I can not imagine how they did not notice the "blowback of copper or the keyholing bullets of my former pistol.
Humans!
I could measure my twisted Remingtons but I am not sure that would accomplish anything - maybe Ehkempf should measure his. He might have gotten a barrel rifled for a 223 or some such.
Good thought there Boyd.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
 
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