IBS Resiprosity ??
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Dick Grosbier
Club Coordinator
Sorry but reciprocity is gone.
After 10+ years of one sided reciprocity the members of IBS decided to end that situation last year. It is unfortunate, but several attempts were made over the intervening years with the NBRSA BOD to restore the old situation of actual reciprocity but it never happened. You now must be an IBS member to shoot IBS just as you have had to belong to NBRSA to shoot their matches for years.
Dick Grosbier
IBS Vice President
After 10+ years of one sided reciprocity the members of IBS decided to end that situation last year. It is unfortunate, but several attempts were made over the intervening years with the NBRSA BOD to restore the old situation of actual reciprocity but it never happened. You now must be an IBS member to shoot IBS just as you have had to belong to NBRSA to shoot their matches for years.
Dick Grosbier
IBS Vice President
IBS Resiprosity ??
Yes it s a shame now but that's the way it is.
I bet attendance will be down at a few match's because of it .
I can see IBS point though after all this time. I'm sure IBS was hoping that the wall set up between the organizations would come down.
At times like this we don't need separation we need unity. The politicians won't rest until they pass enough laws to end firearms ownership.
Yes it s a shame now but that's the way it is.
I bet attendance will be down at a few match's because of it .
I can see IBS point though after all this time. I'm sure IBS was hoping that the wall set up between the organizations would come down.
At times like this we don't need separation we need unity. The politicians won't rest until they pass enough laws to end firearms ownership.
Dick Grosbier
Club Coordinator
Jim
I am not going to go down that road and start this discussion , talk to your NBRSA regional directors.
Dick Grosbier
Club Coordinator
Gerrry I agree with every word you said. I must add however the shortage of components is also definitely effecting attendance this year, so exact stats. will likely never be known.
Dick
Mike Bryant
Active member
I'm not sure that its particularly scalping going on as to powder and primers. It seems that everything we buy has jumped whether it has anything to do with components or not. I ordered some primers a week or so ago and what I object to more than anything is what UPS has done to the haz mat fee. The haz mat fee was almost $50. That makes a case of primers pretty expensive. The haz mat fee is nothing more than a company tax that has gone up steadily ever since it was introduced for some nebulous reason. I see no reason for it except for corporate profits. As to the other posts regarding recipriocity, to be blunt, if paying the dues fee to a sanctioning organization is going to be enough to curtail someone from shooting in that organizations matches, then financially, they'll probably have a hard time shooting in matches. I shot my first IBS event last year and joined the IBS to be able to shoot in last years IBS nationals. Whether I renew or not, I don't know. I live a long ways from IBS matches. I've told customers that they need to belong to the organization that hosts matches in the area where they live. If you want to support the NBRSA and IBS, belong to both. Without reciprocity, to shoot in both organizations matches, you need to belong to both organizations. I don't particularly see that as a bad thing.
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IBS Resiprosity
I guess you haven't bought powder or primers for a while.
There's are vendors that scalp all of the time.
I could Name names but I won't It seems every time an item looks like it might dry up for a short while certain vendors charge at least 50% more for certain Items.
As to the organizations yes many support Both . The organizations have a difference of opinions.
That said I wish one thing after being around this game since 1970. How about a little RESPECT by both organizations?
They do the same thing only with a slightly different Agenda.
How about doing something FOR THE shooters Instead of doing something TO the shooters?.
I guess you haven't bought powder or primers for a while.
There's are vendors that scalp all of the time.
I could Name names but I won't It seems every time an item looks like it might dry up for a short while certain vendors charge at least 50% more for certain Items.
As to the organizations yes many support Both . The organizations have a difference of opinions.
That said I wish one thing after being around this game since 1970. How about a little RESPECT by both organizations?
They do the same thing only with a slightly different Agenda.
How about doing something FOR THE shooters Instead of doing something TO the shooters?.
Mike Bryant
Active member
I looked back at the invoice for the Federal 205's that I ordered. The haz mat wasn't $49. That was the shipping cost plus the haz mat charge. It made a box of 1000 primers cost close to $40. I'd bet that we'll never see primer costs again what they were before all the ammunition and component shortages. A case of 5000 primers from Midway is about the same once shipping cost and hazmat charge was added. The biggest thing now is finding the primers that you want in stock. There will always be people who will take advantage of shortages. I'm not sure what price gouging is when it comes to primers as these are about twice the price of what they were a few years ago. I went to a gun show when all the assault rifle ban talk was going on and saw a Magpul 30 round AR magazine priced at $75 for a magazine that normally sold for around $12 to 15. $85 AR lower parts kits were selling for twice the regular pricing. Fortunately, that kind of stuff has come down since nothing much happened with regulations unless you live in certain states.
My home range is WWCCA. NBRSA range. Then Holton Gun and Bow for a 3 hour drive.
I liked Precision Shooter Mag. And the Benchrest Central board. So I belong to both IBS and NBRSA. And I sometimes leave an opinion or 2 on this board.
I recently noticed that after an opinion or 2 there are no more posters. Sorry Rodger.
If you can't afford $100 for membership. How can you shoot this sport?
Oh. And when the IBS Nationals show up at your door step, why not support your club and shoot???
I can't figure that one out....????????????
I liked Precision Shooter Mag. And the Benchrest Central board. So I belong to both IBS and NBRSA. And I sometimes leave an opinion or 2 on this board.
I recently noticed that after an opinion or 2 there are no more posters. Sorry Rodger.
If you can't afford $100 for membership. How can you shoot this sport?
Oh. And when the IBS Nationals show up at your door step, why not support your club and shoot???
I can't figure that one out....????????????
Gerry we do the group buy thing. So far it works out great.
The scalpers are at Gun shows.
I think, the prices are up because of the price of gas. Raise the Min. Wage and it will go up again.
Jan. 21, 2009 the price around Detroit, MI was $1.80/gal. Today it was $3.80/ gal.
Oh, and most of the gas is trucked in to Metro Detroit. Marathon has a refinery 3 miles north. The local stations get their gas from IN.
The scalpers are at Gun shows.
I think, the prices are up because of the price of gas. Raise the Min. Wage and it will go up again.
Jan. 21, 2009 the price around Detroit, MI was $1.80/gal. Today it was $3.80/ gal.
Oh, and most of the gas is trucked in to Metro Detroit. Marathon has a refinery 3 miles north. The local stations get their gas from IN.
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IBS Resiprosity
sorry zippy not all of them are at gun shows.
they advertise on several sites .
check out some prices and increase of 45 to 50% is scalping sometimes it even more''
The gas thing {prices certainly do have an effect on travel , along with motel prices.
Gas is about the same prices here.
There are several factors that also effect turn outs at shoots , besides gas prices.
shooters demands are pretty high.
sorry zippy not all of them are at gun shows.
they advertise on several sites .
check out some prices and increase of 45 to 50% is scalping sometimes it even more''
The gas thing {prices certainly do have an effect on travel , along with motel prices.
Gas is about the same prices here.
There are several factors that also effect turn outs at shoots , besides gas prices.
shooters demands are pretty high.
Hey Gerry. Gas about the same. whoa isn't that the start of a conspiracy or something.
There are only 5 Oil companies, left. Last I heard anyway.
I don't have time for TV. I work, shoot, look at BC, reload, work some more.......run the occasional match.....pretty much a shut in.
There are only 5 Oil companies, left. Last I heard anyway.
I don't have time for TV. I work, shoot, look at BC, reload, work some more.......run the occasional match.....pretty much a shut in.
IBS Resiprosity
zippy
That,s a lot of us. Lucky me I'm retired.
I don't know what kind of match you run but i have to thank you for doing it.
Not many people really want to do that. I've run quite a few in my day.
I guess it gets down to the givers and the takers at times Not everyone wants to give their spare time to running match,s
The oil companies? wow they are the only industry who are ALLOWED to FIX prices, The days of competition between them are over.
There seems to be something going on with motel rooms too. there,s some kind of national minimum that they charge.
i think it has to do with the large chains in hotel motel industry.
The shooters today are asking for 1 SHOWERS at the range 2 camping facilities 3 electrical hook ups 4 Kitchen
iTs pretty tough on the older clubs some are lucky to have just water.
zippy
That,s a lot of us. Lucky me I'm retired.
I don't know what kind of match you run but i have to thank you for doing it.
Not many people really want to do that. I've run quite a few in my day.
I guess it gets down to the givers and the takers at times Not everyone wants to give their spare time to running match,s
The oil companies? wow they are the only industry who are ALLOWED to FIX prices, The days of competition between them are over.
There seems to be something going on with motel rooms too. there,s some kind of national minimum that they charge.
i think it has to do with the large chains in hotel motel industry.
The shooters today are asking for 1 SHOWERS at the range 2 camping facilities 3 electrical hook ups 4 Kitchen
iTs pretty tough on the older clubs some are lucky to have just water.
"Reciprocity" is an interesting word. It indicates that two or more parties have agreed to invite/allow/tolerate each other. Having come into benchrest shooting with no prior affiliations, our club decided on the IBS format because of not needing backers. The rules from IBS were that NBRSA members were given standing under "reciprocity". I'm guessing it was an attempt by the IBS leaders at that time to broach the barrier that had been thrown up between IBS and NBRSA before I got here. I thought it was a great idea and lots of NBRSA members have shot at our IBS matches under the "reciprocity" rule.
Seems the NBRSA never responded to the peace offering. Now it seems IBS has decided to terminate the peace offering. It's about like Baptists and Pentecostals, who would rather fight over what we disagree on instead of uniting on the things we do agree on.
Match expenses and organizing are becoming a sore consideration. At our matches, it is a constant battle to get target crew, kitchen workers, the benches suck, the road is bumpy ... Our club has gone through the phases so many others have. In today's world, volunteerism is fast vanishing. So we adopted the "write the check" philosophy and hired the work done. In that vein, I have paid out a lot of money to hired workers that would have normally gone into the Club's coffers. The result is, we write more checks than the money we put back in. Our first few neophyte matches were all volunteer. Then it was "tipping" the range workers. Now, it's paying pretty darned good money for someone to run targets. Used to make a couple hundred bucks in the kitchen at a good match. Now that all goes to the hired help, when I can find some.
Hoarding, scalping ... two words that describe the American Way. I've got it, you don't; you want it, pay my price. My local dealer keeps showing me the catalog from his suppliers and says the wholesale prices are almost all the same today as in the summer of last year. Increases in prices at the retail level are due to the "American Way".
I'm still amazed by the whole experience. I presume Hodgdon, for example, is importing H4198 by the hundreds of tons. If every competitive shooter in America hoarded 10 or 15 8-lb. jugs there still should be a few crumbs left over somewhere. Same with primers. I read somewhere of the 100s of millions of primers being produced every month. If y'all been hoarding 100K or so, that oughta leave a couple laying around somewhere. Still can't wrap my little mind around the whole thing.
Seems the NBRSA never responded to the peace offering. Now it seems IBS has decided to terminate the peace offering. It's about like Baptists and Pentecostals, who would rather fight over what we disagree on instead of uniting on the things we do agree on.
Match expenses and organizing are becoming a sore consideration. At our matches, it is a constant battle to get target crew, kitchen workers, the benches suck, the road is bumpy ... Our club has gone through the phases so many others have. In today's world, volunteerism is fast vanishing. So we adopted the "write the check" philosophy and hired the work done. In that vein, I have paid out a lot of money to hired workers that would have normally gone into the Club's coffers. The result is, we write more checks than the money we put back in. Our first few neophyte matches were all volunteer. Then it was "tipping" the range workers. Now, it's paying pretty darned good money for someone to run targets. Used to make a couple hundred bucks in the kitchen at a good match. Now that all goes to the hired help, when I can find some.
Hoarding, scalping ... two words that describe the American Way. I've got it, you don't; you want it, pay my price. My local dealer keeps showing me the catalog from his suppliers and says the wholesale prices are almost all the same today as in the summer of last year. Increases in prices at the retail level are due to the "American Way".
I'm still amazed by the whole experience. I presume Hodgdon, for example, is importing H4198 by the hundreds of tons. If every competitive shooter in America hoarded 10 or 15 8-lb. jugs there still should be a few crumbs left over somewhere. Same with primers. I read somewhere of the 100s of millions of primers being produced every month. If y'all been hoarding 100K or so, that oughta leave a couple laying around somewhere. Still can't wrap my little mind around the whole thing.