How well do "Super Feet" work?
- Thread starter Wilbur
- Start date
Steelhead1
G Vanlier
Wilbur,
I think they work pretty well considering that they actually bridge a lot of the benches divots, created when guys used to pound the points of the feet into the bench top with a hammer. To answer your question, if you slam the rail top forward they will slide, however the rule allowing a block of wood clamped to the front edge of the bench prevents the sliding forward.
I think they work pretty well considering that they actually bridge a lot of the benches divots, created when guys used to pound the points of the feet into the bench top with a hammer. To answer your question, if you slam the rail top forward they will slide, however the rule allowing a block of wood clamped to the front edge of the bench prevents the sliding forward.
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
I'm. Certainly not a rail shooter expert but I never did find any legal manner to stop a rail from moving if the shooter got too bold shoving the top forward.
Nor, did I ever get a suitable answer as to why the base shouldn't be clamped to the benchtop. After all it is supposed to be "unlimited", isn't it?
The sets of super feet I have do help holding a rest in place especially at a range that has that super hard concrete in their bench tops. I shot one target at River Bend then started using some super feet.
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C
CMaier
Guest
very well.
i use them better than 95% of the time.
the bigger the better in my opinion.
you can move the rest/and feet with effort,
but they seem very stable under fire.
i use them better than 95% of the time.
the bigger the better in my opinion.
you can move the rest/and feet with effort,
but they seem very stable under fire.
Boyd Allen
Active member
Don't own a rail. Doesn't the rule book allow you to clamp a wood stop block to the bench so that it contacts a rail's base? Ocock has done pretty good with his rail, but I don't remember him slamming it around. He even picks his brass of of the bolt face, instead of using an ejector.
jackie schmidt
New member
Super feet work great.
Not so great as to allow you to "slam" the top back against the stop. But then, if you do that, it's going to move anyway, regardless of what you are using.
I think there is a lot of fallacies about shooting a Rail. Many shooters think that you can just go to town and never look. But keep in mind, the base doesn't have to shift hardly any at all to cause a disaster on the target.
I have actually seen days practicing when I can shoot smaller groups with my LV or 30BR HV than I can my Rail. A Rail really will not shoot any more precision than a Bag Gun. It just helps a shooter keep a better eye on conditions, and if it is a good Rail, removes shooter errors that are bench technique related.
Of course, you can have as heavy of a barrel as you want on a rail, which in theory means it is not as subsepticle to heat and vibrations. But in all honesty, I think that is over rated.
Not so great as to allow you to "slam" the top back against the stop. But then, if you do that, it's going to move anyway, regardless of what you are using.
I think there is a lot of fallacies about shooting a Rail. Many shooters think that you can just go to town and never look. But keep in mind, the base doesn't have to shift hardly any at all to cause a disaster on the target.
I have actually seen days practicing when I can shoot smaller groups with my LV or 30BR HV than I can my Rail. A Rail really will not shoot any more precision than a Bag Gun. It just helps a shooter keep a better eye on conditions, and if it is a good Rail, removes shooter errors that are bench technique related.
Of course, you can have as heavy of a barrel as you want on a rail, which in theory means it is not as subsepticle to heat and vibrations. But in all honesty, I think that is over rated.
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
One more thing about super feet, the ones with rubber buttons. Moisten the rubber and they will hold in place better on most bench tops.
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I think I'm one of those that caused folks to say "no hammers allowed". I would beat my rail points into the bench so they wouldn't move...ever. You couldn't let the rail top hit the rear stop or you would have to look, and almost always bump it back into place but it wouldn't move otherwise. One time the cement broke and caused a bit of aiming error but the other two feet held it pretty close. If those days are gone, I suppose that's the reason for the railgun class to decline. Five shot unlimited just ain't right. Like Jackie said, bag guns shoot as well or better than rails...but not as fast. If you have to look each shot, why would you have a railgun?
Boyd Allen
Active member
Wilbur,
Records are being broken in unlimited on a fairly regular basis. A look at the record book in aggregates does not support the idea that bag guns shoot as well as rails. I posted a picture of Gary Ocock's rail...with super feet. A quick look at the record book shows that it is very competitive in that form. Evidently there is no need to pound in points to win in unlimited.
Records are being broken in unlimited on a fairly regular basis. A look at the record book in aggregates does not support the idea that bag guns shoot as well as rails. I posted a picture of Gary Ocock's rail...with super feet. A quick look at the record book shows that it is very competitive in that form. Evidently there is no need to pound in points to win in unlimited.
Steelhead1
G Vanlier
Jerry,
I believe if you check, moistening the rubber on the super feet is prohibited in the NBRSA rule as are rubber based feet under any rest.
Boyd If I remember correctly I think Gary Ocock has changed his rail gun action to a Marsh which does eject.and yes as I stated earlier you can clamp a wood block in front of the rail, however it can't capture or touch the side of the rail base. The block does mitigate any forward movement of the base!
I believe if you check, moistening the rubber on the super feet is prohibited in the NBRSA rule as are rubber based feet under any rest.
Boyd If I remember correctly I think Gary Ocock has changed his rail gun action to a Marsh which does eject.and yes as I stated earlier you can clamp a wood block in front of the rail, however it can't capture or touch the side of the rail base. The block does mitigate any forward movement of the base!
Steelhead1
G Vanlier
Wilbur,
I think the move to super feet was made to preserve the tops of concrete benchs, as you know ranges like Phoenix have tops that have serious divots from pounding the points into the top of the bench. That's what I was taught to do when I first started shootin in the late 90's. Now there are clubs/ranges that require these protective feet be used so that everyone doesn't have to set points into already existIng divots. Was the old way better? I don't know but most guys use these feet today and there are still a few old school guys that pound ther points into the tops! Once again personal choice, as to how you want to play it.
I think the move to super feet was made to preserve the tops of concrete benchs, as you know ranges like Phoenix have tops that have serious divots from pounding the points into the top of the bench. That's what I was taught to do when I first started shootin in the late 90's. Now there are clubs/ranges that require these protective feet be used so that everyone doesn't have to set points into already existIng divots. Was the old way better? I don't know but most guys use these feet today and there are still a few old school guys that pound ther points into the tops! Once again personal choice, as to how you want to play it.
David Halblom
Flying Fish Fundamentals
would you please
direct me to chapter and verse where it states thus???? Been using water under my Super Feet for MANY years, especially on super smooth tops.
David
direct me to chapter and verse where it states thus???? Been using water under my Super Feet for MANY years, especially on super smooth tops.
David
I did some thinking on this and I don't think it matters much to me anymore. In fact, if there's anybody that needs a rail you'll be able to get mine cheap when I croak. Until then - don't even ask. 
While I care deeply, it doesn't matter in any capacity as I haven't fired a competitive shot in years and years. Aside from stirring up some sort of "ruckus" on this forum now and then, I'm simply a bystander with a membership card....Please help me remember that.....
I understand what happened with the bench tops. Folks that build benches don't shoot rail guns and could not figure out why in the hell the bench tops were beat to pieces. So they said "NO HOLES IN THESE NEW BENCH TOPS".
While I voted against it every time it came up, Jerry's thought should be reconsidered given that ranges have taken the route of "no hammers". Clamping a rail to the bench would essentially be the same as pounding the feet...maybe a little better. If you think about it, the rules haven't changed but the ranges did change so why not change the rule to keep the game somewhat the same.
BTW - Clamping a board in front of the rail will help but it won't keep your rail from moving. If you have to look through the scope every shot it ain't unlimited.
While I care deeply, it doesn't matter in any capacity as I haven't fired a competitive shot in years and years. Aside from stirring up some sort of "ruckus" on this forum now and then, I'm simply a bystander with a membership card....Please help me remember that.....I understand what happened with the bench tops. Folks that build benches don't shoot rail guns and could not figure out why in the hell the bench tops were beat to pieces. So they said "NO HOLES IN THESE NEW BENCH TOPS".
While I voted against it every time it came up, Jerry's thought should be reconsidered given that ranges have taken the route of "no hammers". Clamping a rail to the bench would essentially be the same as pounding the feet...maybe a little better. If you think about it, the rules haven't changed but the ranges did change so why not change the rule to keep the game somewhat the same.
BTW - Clamping a board in front of the rail will help but it won't keep your rail from moving. If you have to look through the scope every shot it ain't unlimited.
Boyd Allen
Active member
Wilbur,
I think that bench builders attitudes might have been different if shooters had fixed the damage that they had caused every once in a while, but I have not heard of that happening. IMO it is not that bench builders do not understand, it is that benchrest competitors generally have not pulled their weight in this area, and builders have finally said enough. This sort of reminds me of the damage that skate boarders commonly caused before special facilities were built. If there had been an annual work detail at ranges where benchrest shooters who caused damage had fixed damage, I am pretty sure that none of this would have happened. Ultimately, ranges are generally supported out of revenues from their non competition activities. Members subsidize competition that most of them do not participate in, for the good of the cause. Range builders are a very small group...that I belong to. Having spent months building an excellent facility has permanently changed my attitude about the rationalizations of those who think that damaging them is necessary.
Boyd
I think that bench builders attitudes might have been different if shooters had fixed the damage that they had caused every once in a while, but I have not heard of that happening. IMO it is not that bench builders do not understand, it is that benchrest competitors generally have not pulled their weight in this area, and builders have finally said enough. This sort of reminds me of the damage that skate boarders commonly caused before special facilities were built. If there had been an annual work detail at ranges where benchrest shooters who caused damage had fixed damage, I am pretty sure that none of this would have happened. Ultimately, ranges are generally supported out of revenues from their non competition activities. Members subsidize competition that most of them do not participate in, for the good of the cause. Range builders are a very small group...that I belong to. Having spent months building an excellent facility has permanently changed my attitude about the rationalizations of those who think that damaging them is necessary.
Boyd
Steelhead1
G Vanlier
Hi David,
Went back and read the rule and while your correct it says nothing about the use of any water. What it does say is that the disc(superfeet) can't be clamped or attached to the bench. This is where I would question the use of water, the water and the rubber feet when moistened, may create a bond between the rubber and the concrete and when the base is removed if you have to pry the superfeet from the concrete bench does that constitute attachment? I know for a fact that there were some people that utilized brake cleaner on the bottom of the rubber and and once the base was set on the superfeet they were actually glued to the bench, I watched when it was time to change benches and this person had to use a putty knife to pry them from the concrete! Is not the use of water an attempt to create that bond, I don't know but I will try the water at the Nationals and if in fact the rubber sticks to the concrete then I would say it's going to be a problem!
Went back and read the rule and while your correct it says nothing about the use of any water. What it does say is that the disc(superfeet) can't be clamped or attached to the bench. This is where I would question the use of water, the water and the rubber feet when moistened, may create a bond between the rubber and the concrete and when the base is removed if you have to pry the superfeet from the concrete bench does that constitute attachment? I know for a fact that there were some people that utilized brake cleaner on the bottom of the rubber and and once the base was set on the superfeet they were actually glued to the bench, I watched when it was time to change benches and this person had to use a putty knife to pry them from the concrete! Is not the use of water an attempt to create that bond, I don't know but I will try the water at the Nationals and if in fact the rubber sticks to the concrete then I would say it's going to be a problem!
Boyd Allen
Active member
I have spoken to fellows that have lost a promising agg, because their rail point fell into a hole in the top and they did not realize it until it was too late. As far as setup goes, the RH shooters who are not pounding in their points and who are not using superfeet to bridge the damage have to hunt around to find a spot for their rest points, and I an not just talking about rail shooters. What really frosts me is when a fellow is pounding in his points with a lot of force and a large hammer for his bag gun. One fellow that I have seen do this has put a lot of time in working on the benches at the range near his home, and there, there is an absolute rule against that sort of thing. Not his range, not his benches, no concern whatsoever...no money or sweat invested. Beyond that, what does it hurt how your new car drives if I key the paint job? (I would never in a million years do such a thing) How about this for a compromise? Allow clamping a false top onto the real bench top, and allow pounding points into that. I think that that would satisfy the continuity of rules and records issue, save the bench tops and let shooters who feel deprived not use superfeet and pound in their points. Others in this thread have said that even if points are pounded, if you hit the stop hard you had better take a look before pulling the trigger. Still others have proven by their being in the record book that using superfeet is not an impediment to accuracy.
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That sounds like a great compromise to me! It will require a rule change so y'all get it done at the Nats this year!! Doesn't matter if it isn't on the agenda as the game changing rules seldom are.....I'll send my Director an email asking for this change.
Clamp boards or something to the bench and hammer your rail into that something. Have to be able to pick the base up out of the "something". Cool!! Doesn't matter whether or not you clamp the rail to the bench or clamp the something to the bench but that just might fly as a go between until folks see the light.
I have to ask if anybody reading this can see a downside to such a change?
Thanks Boyd!!
BTW - if a rail falls into or out of a hole...it moved. The hole has nothing to do with it except that it might not have been a good enough hole!
Clamp boards or something to the bench and hammer your rail into that something. Have to be able to pick the base up out of the "something". Cool!! Doesn't matter whether or not you clamp the rail to the bench or clamp the something to the bench but that just might fly as a go between until folks see the light.
I have to ask if anybody reading this can see a downside to such a change?
Thanks Boyd!!
BTW - if a rail falls into or out of a hole...it moved. The hole has nothing to do with it except that it might not have been a good enough hole!
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David Halblom
Flying Fish Fundamentals
Well, glued NO, stuck YES
The fact that the feet do not move has to do with hydraulic "suction" not glue. And it is only truly effective on the super smooth tops. Since I have not shot Phoenix in the last 8 or so years, I will reserve judgement. But if the tops are SLICK, you can bet I will have my spray bottle out squirting every bench every time I shoot it.
Look me up when you get there. My trailer will be on the "loading trailer" line.
David
The fact that the feet do not move has to do with hydraulic "suction" not glue. And it is only truly effective on the super smooth tops. Since I have not shot Phoenix in the last 8 or so years, I will reserve judgement. But if the tops are SLICK, you can bet I will have my spray bottle out squirting every bench every time I shoot it.
Look me up when you get there. My trailer will be on the "loading trailer" line.
David