Reading are done with two, one was a strain gage 10-50 lb. and the K&M force indicator. We used the real strain gage to get a to see if the numbers on the K&M were close to accurate and they were. I was looking for numbers for reference the amount of force required to seat a bullet, and try to get uniform sets for record rounds. It also shows the amount of force it increased from one firing to the second and the third. This was only done on the 6mm cases....... jim
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F
Fla mac
Guest
jim1K,
Did you use your strain gage load cell to do a pull test on the cases after you seated your bullets. I would like to be able to make a slug to load of just copper, the dia. would be the same as the bullet dia. Make the slug about 2in. long with a hole near one end so you can do put test also. I worked R&D Eng. with Boeing, Titusville, Fl.
john
Mims, Fl.
Did you use your strain gage load cell to do a pull test on the cases after you seated your bullets. I would like to be able to make a slug to load of just copper, the dia. would be the same as the bullet dia. Make the slug about 2in. long with a hole near one end so you can do put test also. I worked R&D Eng. with Boeing, Titusville, Fl.
john
Mims, Fl.
M
mks
Guest
... Didn't have to anneal, and the final bullet pull was extremely even. ...
Charles,
Thanks for sharing your experience with not annealing. To add to this, I don't think I am the only score shooter who has sized 40-50+ times without annealing. After the first dozen or so, and after a bushing adjustment or two, seating force remains very uniform without any extra processing. This behavior is predicted by the equations, and is validated by real shooting data.
Thanks,
Keith
Butch Lambert
Active member
This thread is very funny. I had an email from one of the top shooters. Said it was discussed at the Super Shoot. It was considered a joke by the top shooters at the Super Shoot.
If any of you want to be a top shooter, spend your time and money at the range.
If any of you want to be a top shooter, spend your time and money at the range.
This thread is very funny. I had an email from one of the top shooters. Said it was discussed at the Super Shoot. It was considered a joke by the top shooters at the Super Shoot.
If any of you want to be a top shooter, spend your time and money at the range.
I'm not a group shooter for the most part, but it is my understanding that many, if not most group shooters make new brass for large matches (maybe all matches) and throw it away when the match is over. For score matches and long range this would get expensive and time consuming.
Rick
For most that shoot at 100 and 200 don't seem to think it matters but if they venture to 600 and 1000 they may get a different picture. They laugh at annealing but for the most part never tried it. They don't play the game of long range shoot but they make statements on annealing and they never did it or seen how well it works. Can you imagine throwing charges out of a powder measure at long range,you could save a lot of ammo because you would be going home early. These practices don't cut it at 1000 yds. Annealing extends the useful life of brass and it makes more uniform neck tension. I guess if you want to stay in top of the game you have to try things, then if it works keep doing it or move on....... jim
This thread is very funny. I had an email from one of the top shooters. Said it was discussed at the Super Shoot. It was considered a joke by the top shooters at the Super Shoot.
If any of you want to be a top shooter, spend your time and money at the range.
It would be pretty funny if these "top shooters" from the "super shoot" would show up at a IBS 1K BR match with their PPC's shooting 68 grainers! Now that would be something to joke about!
Butch Lambert
Active member
Nobody has downplayed your sport. Why do you downplay ours?
D
dk hunt 14
Guest
Annealing
If this is not making fun what is it? Or the comment on wine. Seems the difference in opinion is between point blank and Long range shooters. Annealing makes a difference in long range, really helps in the vertical. You have to spend time on the range but you need to do a lot of other things also. I have a machine that you can set the time from 1/4 second to 8 seconds. You set a case in the holder; push a button; the case starts to spin and turns into the flame; when time is up it comes out of the flame and comes past where it started and turns upside down and dumps it out. Cases are all dead nuts even; looks like a Lapua. Maybe Sid Goodling could comment on annealing because he shoots some long range and builds both type of guns. One thing that I don't think anybody talked about is annealing helps seal the chamber keeping velocities more consistent. Matt
This thread is very funny. I had an email from one of the top shooters. Said it was discussed at the Super Shoot. It was considered a joke by the top shooters at the Super Shoot.
If any of you want to be a top shooter, spend your time and money at the range.
If this is not making fun what is it? Or the comment on wine. Seems the difference in opinion is between point blank and Long range shooters. Annealing makes a difference in long range, really helps in the vertical. You have to spend time on the range but you need to do a lot of other things also. I have a machine that you can set the time from 1/4 second to 8 seconds. You set a case in the holder; push a button; the case starts to spin and turns into the flame; when time is up it comes out of the flame and comes past where it started and turns upside down and dumps it out. Cases are all dead nuts even; looks like a Lapua. Maybe Sid Goodling could comment on annealing because he shoots some long range and builds both type of guns. One thing that I don't think anybody talked about is annealing helps seal the chamber keeping velocities more consistent. Matt
D
Dan Conzo
Guest
I think Matt and Jim are right on. If some want to laugh about annealing-that is their problem.
T
thumper4fun
Guest
I think Matt and Jim are right on. If some want to laugh about annealing-that is their problem.
Not sure anyone is right or wrong nor do I think that if you don't anneal that you have a problem. What I do think is there are different perspectives.
I shoot both short range group, short range score and long range group/score at my local club and have participated in a few sanctioned matches. I'm not an expert at any discipline but I do like to learn and ask questions. Below is from my notes on trends.
Short range group shooters almost exclusively load at the range and do not anneal brass.
Short range score shooters almost exclusively preload and it is a mix on annealing brass...some do and some don't. If they do it's usually after 3-5 firings.
Long range (600 yds and up) score/group shooters all preload and firmly rely on annealing brass....some after every firing but the majority after 3-5 firings.
I think one of the reasons most short range group shooters don't anneal is because they load at the range. If they see their group starting to blow up they can change their load to compensate. For example, their load my be blowing up due to less neck tension resulting from their brass becoming hardened so they go up .3 on their powder charge to compensate. Or if they think they are having a neck tension issues they just go to a smaller neck sizing bushing and carry on. So in their minds its much easier to change a load than anneal.
Of course this is all just speculation on my part.
D
Dan Conzo
Guest
Matt and Jim both shoot world class groups. Matt is the only one in the 2 inch club with 10 shots at 1000 yard B/R. I don't know about 100 yards or 600 yards but something must be right about annealing for 1000 yards knowing that it of course is not the only thing involved. Most other top 1000 yard shooters that I know also anneal at least some of the time or everytime. To me the proof and facts are right-on for 1000 yards B/R shooting. I would guess if a person had the money to buy new brass every couple firings he may also do well, but until somebody comes along and blazes a string of good aggregates and/or world records at a 1000 without annealing and shooting their brass many times-I think I'll stick to the tried and true.
D
Dan Conzo
Guest
Who in the hell cares about the top shooters at a short range super shoot laughing about annealing. Is this supposed to represent a constructive fact?
I think the big thing is, the round left over from my last match are now sighter rounds and i anneal and reload the cases and they will shoot the exact same place as the others in the box.
Matt had a good point about sealing the case, he didn't get to the top by being narrow minded did he......thanks. Annealing is only a small part of the overall picture but with out it you get vertical. Long range is about doing things the same, ES. in single digits. Heck my long range guns can shoot in the zeros at 100 yds. but can theirs shoot in 2" at 1000? or agg. 4.5 for ten matches?. I hear the IBS. may hold a shoot where you shoot what you have short and long range and F class go head to head for all the marbles,we will see who laughs at the end........jim
Matt had a good point about sealing the case, he didn't get to the top by being narrow minded did he......thanks. Annealing is only a small part of the overall picture but with out it you get vertical. Long range is about doing things the same, ES. in single digits. Heck my long range guns can shoot in the zeros at 100 yds. but can theirs shoot in 2" at 1000? or agg. 4.5 for ten matches?. I hear the IBS. may hold a shoot where you shoot what you have short and long range and F class go head to head for all the marbles,we will see who laughs at the end........jim
Butch Lambert
Active member
Jim,
I'm sorry that I pissed on your Post Toasties. Nothing was brought up about long range until later in the thread. Go back and read through it. If you do shoot "zeros" at 100 yards? Come on guy! You may not like my post, but don't start this "0" groups at 100yds. You may be a decent shooter and I respect you for that.
Wanting a short range shooter to shoot a PPC at 1000 yards is like asking you to compete at 100 yards with whatever cartridge that you shoot. It ain't the same and the argument is moot.
I will defer to your opinion at long range.
I'm sorry that I pissed on your Post Toasties. Nothing was brought up about long range until later in the thread. Go back and read through it. If you do shoot "zeros" at 100 yards? Come on guy! You may not like my post, but don't start this "0" groups at 100yds. You may be a decent shooter and I respect you for that.
Wanting a short range shooter to shoot a PPC at 1000 yards is like asking you to compete at 100 yards with whatever cartridge that you shoot. It ain't the same and the argument is moot.
I will defer to your opinion at long range.