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Gene Beggs
Active member
Stuff 'Bout Tuners
Mornin' guys
After a good night's rest and two cups of coffee, I'll try once more to put my thoughts in writing. Yesterday, I spent most of the morning working on a post and as I was nearing completion, my internet service abruptly quit and I lost the entire thing.
Cableone has been installing new equipment and upgrading their service; outages have been very common lately. Hope that doesn't happen today.
I have read and digested every response to this thread and I'm with every one of you in what you say; however, nothing that has been said invalidates anything I have posted so far. I realize this is a very controversial subject and there are many who have experimented with it, but let me ask you something; do you suppose that maybe, just maybe, I'm telling the truth and know what I'm talking about?
For weeks, I have gone to the tunnel almost every day and practiced what I described in my post on how to use a tuner; it repeats every time. The adjustments are quick, and easy. At will, I can put the rifle completely out of tune and bring it right back using only the tuner.
In all of this, two schools of thought have emerged;
1. Those who feel that one should add large amounts of weight beyond the muzzle in order to move the parallel node all the way to or beyond the crown, thereby eliminating the need for adjustments, supposedly, 'stopping' the muzzle. Once set, they leave it alone. Those in this camp regard such a device as a dampener, not a tuner.
2. Those who regard tuners as just that, tuners; a device that enables the shooter to vary the vibration frequency of the barrel at will.
In answer to all of this, I say, "Method #1 is impractical because, even if it were true that there is a parallel node that is motionless and that by adding enough weight to the muzzle you can actually move it to the crown; can we afford that much of a weight penalty in a 10.5 lb., rifle?" And second, adding that much weight to the muzzle makes the rifle nose heavy and disturbs its balance. Third, I do not like the idea of anything protruding beyond the muzzle that interferes with the escape of high pressure gas at bullet exit.
The question is often asked, "How much weight does it take?" For method number one; a bunch, close to a pound in some cases. For method two; not much! I have not found the absolute minimum, but my three ounce tuner works perfectly on both LV and HV barrels.
What is the range of motion of my tuner from one node to the next? One revolution. We divide this into eight parts. The tuner reference mark is placed at 12:00, 01:30, 03:00, 04:30 and so on.
It has been said, "A picture is worth a thousand words." Boyd Allen has been trying to drag me, kickin' and screamin' into the 21st century by walking me through the procedure to download digital images to my computer. Maybe with his help and patience, I will soon be able to post pictures of my stock, tuner, dies, cartridges, etc. Thank you Boyd.
Later,
Gene Beggs
Mornin' guys
After a good night's rest and two cups of coffee, I'll try once more to put my thoughts in writing. Yesterday, I spent most of the morning working on a post and as I was nearing completion, my internet service abruptly quit and I lost the entire thing.
Cableone has been installing new equipment and upgrading their service; outages have been very common lately. Hope that doesn't happen today. I have read and digested every response to this thread and I'm with every one of you in what you say; however, nothing that has been said invalidates anything I have posted so far. I realize this is a very controversial subject and there are many who have experimented with it, but let me ask you something; do you suppose that maybe, just maybe, I'm telling the truth and know what I'm talking about?
For weeks, I have gone to the tunnel almost every day and practiced what I described in my post on how to use a tuner; it repeats every time. The adjustments are quick, and easy. At will, I can put the rifle completely out of tune and bring it right back using only the tuner.
In all of this, two schools of thought have emerged;
1. Those who feel that one should add large amounts of weight beyond the muzzle in order to move the parallel node all the way to or beyond the crown, thereby eliminating the need for adjustments, supposedly, 'stopping' the muzzle. Once set, they leave it alone. Those in this camp regard such a device as a dampener, not a tuner.
2. Those who regard tuners as just that, tuners; a device that enables the shooter to vary the vibration frequency of the barrel at will.
In answer to all of this, I say, "Method #1 is impractical because, even if it were true that there is a parallel node that is motionless and that by adding enough weight to the muzzle you can actually move it to the crown; can we afford that much of a weight penalty in a 10.5 lb., rifle?" And second, adding that much weight to the muzzle makes the rifle nose heavy and disturbs its balance. Third, I do not like the idea of anything protruding beyond the muzzle that interferes with the escape of high pressure gas at bullet exit.
The question is often asked, "How much weight does it take?" For method number one; a bunch, close to a pound in some cases. For method two; not much! I have not found the absolute minimum, but my three ounce tuner works perfectly on both LV and HV barrels.
What is the range of motion of my tuner from one node to the next? One revolution. We divide this into eight parts. The tuner reference mark is placed at 12:00, 01:30, 03:00, 04:30 and so on.
It has been said, "A picture is worth a thousand words." Boyd Allen has been trying to drag me, kickin' and screamin' into the 21st century by walking me through the procedure to download digital images to my computer. Maybe with his help and patience, I will soon be able to post pictures of my stock, tuner, dies, cartridges, etc. Thank you Boyd.
Later,
Gene Beggs
Dick Wright
New member
Gene...
What you are doing here is a great service to our sport. I hope that others realize this.
I've been playing with tuners for at least three seasons and have found exactly the same thing you have... they work and it is quite easy to find a tune.
It was a good thing for benchrest when you quit driving airplanes and built your tunnel.
Thanks!
What you are doing here is a great service to our sport. I hope that others realize this.
I've been playing with tuners for at least three seasons and have found exactly the same thing you have... they work and it is quite easy to find a tune.
It was a good thing for benchrest when you quit driving airplanes and built your tunnel.
Thanks!
Gene Beggs
Active member
Boyd Allen
Active member
Gene,
You are quite welcome. It is the least that I can do, considering all the interesting reading that you provide. If I can help anyone else with the basics of digital photography, and posting pictures on the Internet, I will be glad to. My long distance is on a flat rate, so doing a little coaching on the phone costs me nothing, and we are all enriched by the additional information that pictures provide.
Boyd
You are quite welcome. It is the least that I can do, considering all the interesting reading that you provide. If I can help anyone else with the basics of digital photography, and posting pictures on the Internet, I will be glad to. My long distance is on a flat rate, so doing a little coaching on the phone costs me nothing, and we are all enriched by the additional information that pictures provide.
Boyd
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BigMacky
Guest
First of all Gene ..... THANK YOU for your willingless to share this vital information.
Again .... Thanks ... Fred
If weight were NOT a consideration is Method #1 the method that you would use? I shoot Rimfire ARA with no weight limitations plus my rifle is fairly heavy (near 17 lbs) and a 1 lb tuner would not greatly affect the balance ... or at least I don't think it would.Gene Beggs said:
Interesting question ... some believe in "Bloop Tubes" while others do not ... I'm too new to have made up my mind either way for sure.Gene Beggs said:
Do you have a method for determining how much that weight is?Gene Beggs said:
Gene, I have my own Web Space with TONS of room. I can put any pictures that you'd like to use on my space and give you the "LINK" (URL Address) that you would need to copy into your post to get them to show. Just let me know.Gene Beggs said:
Again .... Thanks ... Fred
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Butch Lambert
Active member
I would like to think Shelley for starting this post. I like it because he stated his reasons for what he does and leaves it like that. I believe we will learn a lot this year. Gene, maybe you are right, we'll see.
Butch
Butch
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Gene Beggs
Active member
As far as I know, you can't.
After years of studying about it and re-indexing several barrels that would not shoot, I believe this method gives you the best chance of having a winner from the 'git-go.' You really never know what you've got until you shoot it. I remember once at the Buffalo Shoot here in Midland, I had a barrel that you could not get the horizontal out of. You could tune the verticle out with the load, but when you did, it always showed excessive horizontal. That evening, I re-indexed the barrel a quarter turn and the next morning won the small group of the agg with it.
Gene Beggs
Kirk Ethridge
New member
barrel indication?
Gene,
i assume when you screw the barrel on your faux receiver, the muzzle rotates
out of center? What part do you want at 6 oclock? (the lowest?)
Kirk
Gene,
i assume when you screw the barrel on your faux receiver, the muzzle rotates
out of center? What part do you want at 6 oclock? (the lowest?)
Kirk