Hodgdon's Extreme H-4198 Powder in the 6PPC?

A

abintx

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Please excuse my ignorance.

Hodgdon's H-4198 [EXTREME] powder is an excellent powder and the powder of choice in the 30BR and a lot of shooters think the 30BR is as accurate as the 6PPC.

When looking at a Hodgdon Powder Burning Rate chart, from slow to fast, VV N-133 is listed as #59 and H-4198 as #61.

Three questions:

Since H-4198 seems to be impervious to temperature changes, and N-133 sensitive, wouldn't H-4198 be the better choice?

If the powder burning rates are so similar, and the case size ratios similar too, why is it that H-4198 has not been used in the 6PPC?

Were there ever any comprehensive tests done using H-4198 in the 6PPC?
 
Big long thread that basicly gets off topic, Talking about the beggs short ppc etc.
From what I remember Allie Euber shot that powder. Think it was IMR 4198 But maybe it could have been hodgdons. anyway it was the older powders, not the extreme . Allie and lee started having presuure problems , and switchd back to other powders, It still may be worth a try. The new powder seems slower {more like 133}
A few club memebers have ideas about trying The newer Extreme 4198 in the BR and PPC.
If we get any good results I'll let you know
 
Allie and Lee wouldn't know how to shoot if they didn't have "pressure problems" ... the amount of 4198 they put into a 30 BR can't even be printed.
 
I think what yo will find with 4198 in a 6ppc is sudden pressure spikes in hot weather. This is what i had happen with my 22ppc .100 short. 4198 shot well in the little 22ppc in cooler weather, but on a sunny July day is can wreck cases. I will say that the groups i did shoot with 4198 were just fine. Try it out, and see what you come up with. Good luck. Lee
 
The late Perry Morton, Fred Hasecuster and several other HOF shooters shot 4198 (not IMR4198 or H4198, just 4189-go figger). But he insisted you can''t shoot a hot load with it, especially on a hot day.

At the 2011 IBS Varmint nationals at Holton I was shooting the Wideners SP210 (like IMR4198) in HV100. I was determined to shoot it hot in the gusty wind. I was shooting 27.2 grains (about 3425 fps) and the temp was probably 90F. My first 2 targets were 0.353" and 0.380". Perry told me to drop the load to 24.5 to 25 grains. I dropped it to 25.0 grains and the next 3 targets were 0.144, 0.181 and 0.192" (about 3175 fps) proving 2 things. Through a 6mm bore 1) you can't shoot 4198 hot in hot weather and 2) Walt Berger is right, about 3175-3225 will do better in switchy wind than many of those 3450+ loads most times.
 
I loaded next to Jeff Fowler at the 1980 NBRSA Nats at Kelblys, and he was a big fan of IMR 4198. Back in Australia we used around 25 gns of it for years until we got some other powders to play with.
 
As an observation, we're hooked on speed -- "to shoot through the wind." Thanks for pointing out the error in that thinking, Jerry. At 1,000 yards wind matters even more, and we were obsessed for years with bigger & faster chamberings. All the new long range records are being set with smaller stuff, in part because you cannot "shoot through the wind."

You can find which components work best in your rifle, up to a point. Many times, that point is economic rather than technical. You can only "stock" so many powders, so many bullet types. Most of us don't even do that. We keep looking for "good barrels."

As another general observation, everyone is trying to compete at the national level. Maybe you can't beat the 20 best shooters in the country with "Fowler" style bullets and "4198." But remember, those shooters go through a lot of barrels to find one that works with whatever they use. At $500 a pop (if you have to hire out fitting a barrel), you can stock a number of different bullet and powder types. When you get to be one of the top shooters in the country, you can chase the absolute "best." In the meantime, you can garner a lot of wood and experience if you work at finding what a barrel likes in terms of different powders, bullets, and primers.

I remember all this because I tried 4198 a while back, and tried to shoot it too fast. It didn't work, so I concluded it wouldn't work. The only thing not working in that equation was me.
 
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