Help with bench technique

J

JohnnyBlu

Guest
Hello,

I've been watching this forum for a long time. I have learned lots of great tidbits and appreciate the knowledge members have. I have been shooting and reloading for 25 years but have ever been into super accuracy. My hunting rifles were fairly inexpensive factory jobs and I figured the inch and half to two inch groups off the bench were the rifles. Recently, however, I've been doing some longer range hunting and have been bitten more by the accuracy bug. What I've come to realize is that I think my shooting technique off the bench has been opening my groups up and I'm not sure how to correct it.

I recently acquired two hunting rifles that are driving me nuts. One is a .300 WSM and the other a 338-06. With both rifles I can usually put 3 rounds in about a half inch, while the other two are high or low by an inch or inch and half.The overall groups are almost always two to three times as tall as they are wide. When I don't have the vertical fliers both rifles have groups under 3/4 inch. I can shoot my .223 off the bench and get nice round groups form 1/2 to 3/4 inch consistently. The difference in technique is I barely hold onto the .223, while I have to hold the others quite tightly.

From the bench I have a Sinclair front rest and a rear "V" bag. My technique is to lay the rifle in the bags, move them to get the crosshairs centered, then try to pull straight back into shoulder, squeeze the rear bag for final alignment and then break the shot. I am pretty good at calling my shots windage wise, but elevation is a mystery.

It has been suggested to me that the ammunition may be inconsistent, but with both rifles the velocities are pretty uniform with SD around 10 fps.

Does anyone have any suggestions for ways to improve my consistency?
 
The 338 is pillar/full length bedded and the barrel is free floated about .030, The 300 has the recoil lug bedded, but the stock has a forend pressure bed lump that I have not removed as Weatherby says it stabilizes the barrel........
 
Hold the freefloated rifle by the pistol grip pointing straight up. SLAPP the forend against the barrel. If you can get the stock to hit the barrel slapping softer than you'd slap your own face then it needs more clearance.

Freefloat the Weatherby.

You absolutely cannot expect to lose the vertical with the barrel bouncing off your stock and bag setup.

Ammunition consistency has nothing to do with inches of vertical @100yds but that barrel flopping like a trout on asphalt shore does...

report back

al
 
How hot is your barrel getting? With magnum calibers in light barrels, I stick to three shot groups, because of barrel heat. Where are the front and rear bags on the stocks? I often see front bags too far forward on sporter stocks. For these, I prefer to have the back of the front bag 2-4" in front of the action. Another thing that can cause fliers is sling swivel studs hooking a bag. There should be enough clearance so that they do not touch, initially, or during recoil. Sometimes, as shooter progress through a group they fail to completely reposition the rifle on the stock causing it to gradually become more and more out of position. Another common mistake that I see is the back of pistol grip caps recoiling into the front of the rear bag. Problems can happen if the toe of the stock is too close to the bench, making intermittent contact during recoil. Shooting from the bench, with a factory trigger, you should gradually increase trigger until the rifle goes off. When it does, you should not know exactly when it will go off. Pulling the trigger abruptly enough to make the rifle fire at some chosen instant invariably means that the shooter has to some degree jerked the trigger. I know that this is a long list of stuff, but if one item helps....
 
JohnnyBlu, I shoot hunting style rifles a lot too, have you considered recoil may be some of your problem because you said the 223 grouped better it may be that it does not kick as hard. When I built my 30-06 the recoil sucked in a sporter weight, so I called my builder and talked to him a bout the recoil and muzzle rise and he installed a helix type brake, and it done wonders for me and the groups. I hope this is of help to you,good luck with your shooting.
 
L.G said:
JohnnyBlu, I shoot hunting style rifles a lot too, have you considered recoil may be some of your problem because you said the 223 grouped better it may be that it does not kick as hard. When I built my 30-06 the recoil sucked in a sporter weight, so I called my builder and talked to him a bout the recoil and muzzle rise and he installed a helix type brake, and it done wonders for me and the groups. I hope this is of help to you,good luck with your shooting.
Click to expand...


L.G brings up a good point.......Are you completely comfortable with the recoil of your two rigs?


What he's is describing is called a flinch. Evidently L.G was flinching, pulling or pushing the rifle off target. "Anticipatory flinch" is one of the worst, this is where you hunch into the rifle as you pull the trigger. It's caused by fear of pain.

The average redneck can't admit to fear of pain.

The average redneck can't shoot worth a $#!t

LOL


al
 
my brother and i each have a rem 700 ti in 300 saum. very light . very thin barrels. kick quite a bit too. they shoot great groups. 5 shots. i have a 300 wsm ( rechambered from 300 saum) sendero . great groups 5 shots. my experience with the 300 shorts is they are like a 308 or 222. Not picky at all in the factory barrels i have loaded for,. load varget and a 165 balistic tip or 168. 030 off the lands and a 9.5 m or wlrm primer.
 
Boyd Allen said:
How hot is your barrel getting? With magnum calibers in light barrels, I stick to three shot groups, because of barrel heat. Where are the front and rear bags on the stocks? I often see front bags too far forward on sporter stocks. For these, I prefer to have the back of the front bag 2-4" in front of the action. Another thing that can cause fliers is sling swivel studs hooking a bag. There should be enough clearance so that they do not touch, initially, or during recoil. Sometimes, as shooter progress through a group they fail to completely reposition the rifle on the stock causing it to gradually become more and more out of position. Another common mistake that I see is the back of pistol grip caps recoiling into the front of the rear bag. Problems can happen if the toe of the stock is too close to the bench, making intermittent contact during recoil. Shooting from the bench, with a factory trigger, you should gradually increase trigger until the rifle goes off. When it does, you should not know exactly when it will go off. Pulling the trigger abruptly enough to make the rifle fire at some chosen instant invariably means that the shooter has to some degree jerked the trigger. I know that this is a long list of stuff, but if one item helps....
Click to expand...

That's a good comprehensive list of things I've been chasing! I don't think it's barrel heat as the groups don't open sequentially, it can be the first or second shot is the flyer. I have played with the front bag and removed the sling swivels. I don't think the rear bag is hitting the pistol grip, but I will check that next time. As a fairly experienced handgun shooter I know triggers fairly well and am all about the surprise break, which is why/how I can call fliers based on the gun not being on at break. I appreciate the reply.
 
alinwa said:
L.G brings up a good point.......Are you completely comfortable with the recoil of your two rigs?


What he's is describing is called a flinch. Evidently L.G was flinching, pulling or pushing the rifle off target. "Anticipatory flinch" is one of the worst, this is where you hunch into the rifle as you pull the trigger. It's caused by fear of pain.

The average redneck can't admit to fear of pain.

The average redneck can't shoot worth a $#!t

LOL


al
Click to expand...

I don't think I could watch the crosshairs climb off the target if I was flinching. I will pay close attention though.
 
If you have removed the front swivel to make sure that it doesn't hit the bag, that is a good thought....but in my experience, that means that you have the front bag too far forward on the stock. It may not look right to you at first, but over the years I have helped a lot of shooters, and worked with rifles of my own, and I am very strong on the idea that thinner stocks are not stiff enough to have the front bag out that far. Try moving the front bag so that its front is is in the middle of the forend or even farther back, and don't be afraid to get a hold of that rifle. I find that it is common that shooters think that some great harm will come if they do. It won't.
 
I would add a little more padding to the front rest (towels). Heavy hitters off hard sand will still bounce quite a bit. Hold firm to the shoulder, but no death grip. Make sure you have a good float. You should not be able to compress the barrel to the forend with your thumb and two fingers. If you can, your barrel will be touching on recoil. Slow down. Make sure you have GOOD ear protection and good recoil padding. Pain and noise can lead to autonomic flinching with heavy recoil....just my thoughts...
 
If your stock forend is the typical narrow with a rounded bottom, you are paying the price there also. With those heavy recoiling cartridges you have got to be getting a lot of torqueing/twisting during recoil, and the bullet is still in the barrel while it is recoiling. The reason a dedicated benchrest rifle has a 3" or so wide, flat forend with side plates keeping the front bag in contact with the sides of the forend. Sounds like you have a lot of handicaps, many being "built-in".
 
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