Have you ever heard a reamer squeak while reaming????

No flames here.... I may not agree with either your logic or your conclusions, as neither of us is a reamer maker. But I do agree with your assessment of flute layout and that the fix has to do with adjusting the geometry and the cutting edges. BTW, IMO the 'waxed paper fix" supports several of your conclusions.

And will add that a close-fitting pilot can work miracles.

al
 
I don't disagree with any of the above info. The most perplexing part of my experience relative to this thread is that the same reamer works fine in another barrel. The info posted about relief angle, etc., may still apply, but one would think that a properly ground reamer, that works fine in one barrel, would work fine in the next, especially considering the same ss alloy(416R) from the same maker, etc.
This is an old thread, but I still don't know that I have an answer. I do appreciate all input, here. I haven't experienced it in a long while. I still think it has something to do with the steel in a few barrels..FWIW.
 
Of course it could be steel AND reamer geometry. Not all steel cuts well with the same tool geometry.
 
Next point of logic: with any multi fluted reamer, each flute is "offset" in a certain manner from a true TDC orientation in order to help prevent chatter. Each offset is slightly different from the others. I am not a tool maker or tool grinder so I'm not familiar with the actual dimensions involved here. I surmise that for the most part these offsets are minor in nature ( a few thousandths either way probably at most) so if the same "angle" setting is used for each flute differences will be minor enough that the overall setting will still result in a reamer that cuts correctly No all reamers do not have offset flutes this is used in form reamers correct terminology is eccentric , con eccentric and concentric fluting this is where flutes line to centerline and determines rake angles.

Since the amount of flute "offset" geometry can vary between makers and even between different grinds from the same maker, it follows that if the offset is "advanced" that is moved clockwise from TDC when looking from rear to front of the reamer, and the face is set vertical relative to the fixture base, and the stoning angle set according to the above, this will result in a greater relief angle at the actual cut (assuming that the actual cut occurs at TDC). Likewise if the offset is "reversed" or moved counter clockwise from TDC, the above setting method will result in a decreased relief angle. yes it will increase back relief angle but will move face to a more negative cutting relief. and if reversed it will reduce side relief and increase face angle.

Now if the relief angle on the margin is reduced enough, the edge will begin to cut extremely small chips (or "dust") and may actually cut very slowly or not at all. A small further reduction in angle and the chamber surface may actually take on a burnished appearance as little or no cutting is taking place. Somewhere within this parameter, the reamer will likely squeak or grab.yes not enough side clearance

Now for my own anecdotal evidence.... I received a reamer from "a well known maker" in a caliber that doesn't make any difference here. I cut one chamber with it and everything was fine. On the second chamber the surface looked a little rougher, and the reamer grabbed a couple of times, so I decided to stone the reamer. First thing I noticed was that with the pointer stop of the fixture set from a previous job, the flute looked to be tilted visibly to the right... in other words, the "offset" was quite a bit different. Anyway, I adjusted the stop so the flute face was vertical and stoned away. Back in the lathe, I was horrified to see that the chamber surface was burnished, the reamer was barely cutting, and it would grab like crazy. Obviously I had changed the margin geometry significantly in the wrong direction.

Back to the stoning fixture.... I adjusted the stop to where the flutes were at their original angle and re-stoned things. And the reamer cut perfectly... no binding, no burnishing, very nice surface, and seemed to go in and pull out effortlessly.

So my tentative conclusions... and please chime on this, guys... A too small back relief (margin cutting angle) can really play games with how a reamer cuts. Flute offset will play a large role in what the actual margin cutting angle (relative to the flute face) needs to be. And if a reamer cuts "dust" or squeals or binds, it might be a good idea to stone or grind(if you've got the capability) a slightly larger margin angle on the reamer flutes. Also note that these observations only pertain to the major diameter body section of the reamer. Neck, throat, and shoulder don't seem to have the same effects imho. to wide of a margin will cause back side of relief to rub, to small relief angle will cause backside to rub, rotating face will either increase or decrease side relief but move front face either to pos. or neg. relief. after all this we can address to much side clearance this will cause reamer to grab ,chatter and prematurely wear .....
 
Question, George... I believe that a chambering reamer IS a type of form reamer? But I'm still not a tool maker so I will gladly defer to the experts as to whether there is offset or something else used in positioning the flutes. They are straight flutes with flat faces if it makes any difference. I presume the reamer maker could definitely confirm this or not. But from a practical stand point, I can definitely confirm that changing the angle made a big difference.

And the margin on these particular reamers is only a few thousandths wide (appears as a "bright line") so is easily changed by stoning as opposed to a full re-grind.

Thanks for the technical stuff. I love learning about this.
 
Yes they do have offset flutes to help with stopping chatter, you may have noticed one or two flutes always seem to cut more than the others ie more chips in one or two flutes. also faces are ground flat but when you rotate this gives either a pos. or neg. rake on face increasing will make reamer cut freer but you would need to increase side relief or it will rub. down side is wear and chip weld on face...I need to add that different materials and different hardness's of materials all call for different relief angles the harder the material such as barrels in 26-28 Rc would want less relief then softer materials.
 
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Ok,.. that all seems to square pretty well with my thoughts. Now another question.. several of us, myself included have experienced "gummy" stainless steel barrels. You would swear that you were dealing with a much softer piece of steel than it actually is. I even had a piece Rockwell tested once. The barrel maker said he spec'd RC 28 to 32 and it turned out to be 28. would increasing the relief angle have helped here?

And another thought... Some stainless can work harden and start to squeak if the cutter / reamer is "idled" in place or the cut is too slow. Would a sharper relief angle and faster cut help alleviate this? This is a bit counterintuitive given the harder material = shallower relief angle principle but I wonder..

I may try these sometime.
 
Four points in Rockwell is not really that much I have had barrels the same as all here , I did have a barrel last year you would swear the reamer was going to break current co making ss match barrels then did an McMillan that I had found a couple of blanks, you could run reamer almost full length without clearing chips, my guess would be more sulpher added in mfg process...
 
George is correct when talking about the rake/back clearance, etc.

I would guess, for 416R, a roll off of .015-.020 should be about right, depending on the thickness of flute.

I can say, I am not familiar with Indexing flutes for chatter, etc. Flutes are generally not in exact index due to time/cost to do so. The generally accepted margin for reamers (regular reamers) is .003 +/- on index. In a six flute reamer, this will give you around .0015 runout. The overall cutting size is determined by the tallest flutes. Generally, on a six flute reamer, at least three flutes on and the others slighly under. Of course, some are better, some worse.

The biggest trouble area for a chamber reamer is the shoulder rake. Even with CNC's, this is a difficult area and needs an eye kept on it.

The reason for the runout has more to do with grinding wheel wear than anything else.
All tooling I ever did that had a tolarances of +/- .0001 were done by hand.

I'm just glad people don't a optical comparator to check tooling, it would be like a BR shooter doing QC with a borescope checking factory barrels at the plant....

Hovis
 
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