Hart 3 groove
- Thread starter HFV
- Start date
jackie schmidt
New member
3-groove
A few years back, a couple of shooters scored some really hot 3-groove Harts. I think one of the shooters that had some really good ones was Smiley Hemsley. Everybody got all excited, but I think in the end, those barrels just happenned to be a 'hot lot', that just happenned to be made with 3-grooves.
I would amagine that the record will show that percentage wise, there are about as many great 3- grooves as there are 6-grooves, and visa-versa.
The same can be said for any of our fine custom barrel manufacturers. We have had polygonal grooves, cupped rifling, lands deeper on one side than the other, 3-grooves, 4-grooves, 5-grooves, six grooves, and even the Shilen 8-groove.
All configurations have produced winners, and all configurations have produced, well, not winners.
In short, for 100-200 yard Benchrest, it just doesn't seem to make much difference. A great barrel is just that. Great. And an average barrel is just that as well.......jackie
A few years back, a couple of shooters scored some really hot 3-groove Harts. I think one of the shooters that had some really good ones was Smiley Hemsley. Everybody got all excited, but I think in the end, those barrels just happenned to be a 'hot lot', that just happenned to be made with 3-grooves.
I would amagine that the record will show that percentage wise, there are about as many great 3- grooves as there are 6-grooves, and visa-versa.
The same can be said for any of our fine custom barrel manufacturers. We have had polygonal grooves, cupped rifling, lands deeper on one side than the other, 3-grooves, 4-grooves, 5-grooves, six grooves, and even the Shilen 8-groove.
All configurations have produced winners, and all configurations have produced, well, not winners.
In short, for 100-200 yard Benchrest, it just doesn't seem to make much difference. A great barrel is just that. Great. And an average barrel is just that as well.......jackie
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Hfv,
Different barrel types do have different "personality" traits. Some folks like to keep it simple( Hart 6 grooves .010 off jam)Some folks like to play with different combinations.Personally I never had a custom barrel that I couldn't get to shoot SOMETHING, of course if you only have one barrel at a time you HAVE to get it to shoot some combination or you're gonna take a beating.
In more specific terms the Hart three grooves I have had like a just touch +/- .003 setting with brisk H322 or 133 loads . They clean up real easy and are slow to carbon foul.Accuracy falls off and can't be retuned at about 1000rds.In the 200-700rd range they are capable of screamer groups! If you are getting copper fouling in any custom barrel there is something wrong with your cleaning procedure.
Hope this helps,
joel
Different barrel types do have different "personality" traits. Some folks like to keep it simple( Hart 6 grooves .010 off jam)Some folks like to play with different combinations.Personally I never had a custom barrel that I couldn't get to shoot SOMETHING, of course if you only have one barrel at a time you HAVE to get it to shoot some combination or you're gonna take a beating.
In more specific terms the Hart three grooves I have had like a just touch +/- .003 setting with brisk H322 or 133 loads . They clean up real easy and are slow to carbon foul.Accuracy falls off and can't be retuned at about 1000rds.In the 200-700rd range they are capable of screamer groups! If you are getting copper fouling in any custom barrel there is something wrong with your cleaning procedure.
Hope this helps,
joel
jackie schmidt
New member
One Other Thing
This might sound like trivial thing for a Machinist to say, but aside from the fact that they shoot REALLY well, Krieger 4-groove barrels are so darned easy to true up in either a 4-jaw or a 3-jaw Buck Chuck.......jackie
This might sound like trivial thing for a Machinist to say, but aside from the fact that they shoot REALLY well, Krieger 4-groove barrels are so darned easy to true up in either a 4-jaw or a 3-jaw Buck Chuck.......jackie
Wayne Shaw
Active member
Yup! Those 5's and 3's are a PITA, doable, just takes a little longer. I run a pilot bushing up in there and indicate off the inside of it first, then take it out and tweek in the barrel. Makes the "rough-in" a little easier.
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3 groove
Thanks Jackie, I have many barrels. Hart, Shilen, Kreiger, Snyder, Douglas, & 1 McMillan and once had a Lilja 3 groove. I was considering getting a Hart 3 groove (not for BR match shooting) to put on old 40X BR rifle to play. The Hart on that rifle is about gone (will produce groups from small .2's to small 3's in good conditions. I am going to replace the barrel, & I knew as you said there were some hot 3 groove barrels (2002, 2003). I know different lots or heats of steel will produce different quality barrels. I didn't know if 4 groove,6 groove barrels in some way give you an atvantage or are in someway better.
Thanks Jackie, I have many barrels. Hart, Shilen, Kreiger, Snyder, Douglas, & 1 McMillan and once had a Lilja 3 groove. I was considering getting a Hart 3 groove (not for BR match shooting) to put on old 40X BR rifle to play. The Hart on that rifle is about gone (will produce groups from small .2's to small 3's in good conditions. I am going to replace the barrel, & I knew as you said there were some hot 3 groove barrels (2002, 2003). I know different lots or heats of steel will produce different quality barrels. I didn't know if 4 groove,6 groove barrels in some way give you an atvantage or are in someway better.
C
chino69
Guest
3 groove barrel
The only observation I can make is that my 3 groove .308 Pac Nor cleans very easily and quickly. I have Harts and Kreigers in 4 and 6 groove configurations and see no difference in accuracy.
Chino69
The only observation I can make is that my 3 groove .308 Pac Nor cleans very easily and quickly. I have Harts and Kreigers in 4 and 6 groove configurations and see no difference in accuracy.
Chino69
This may be a little off topic, but are there any ideas with regard to why the old Marlin Micro Groove barrels they put on those Sako L46 actions seemed to burn out so fast? They had something like 10 grooves and they seemed shallow. Did they burn out because of shallow grooves, or bad steel? Just a thought.
Don Nielson
New member
Lee
If the grooves are causing chatter you have a really really bad set-up. D
If the grooves are causing chatter you have a really really bad set-up. D
Yo Skeet.... ever had a prob w/chatter???
I haven't, lately.
I'm no expert but one of the reasons I didn't get a lathe for 20yrs was reamer chatter...... I remember how much it sucked from years ago.
But things have changed.
Nowadays between chambering thru-the-headstock, driving with finger pressure and CLOSELY FITTED PILOTS I find it not to be a problem. This thing about closely fitted pilots can't be stressed enough IMO. I've spoken with real machinists using real (quarter mil and up) lathes, all American Made and stuff, and they've complained about fighting chatter while using my reamers...... yet I've used the same reamers WITH the perfect pilot (I've got the time to order the stuff) and had no problems.
One of these daze I intend to induce chatter with a sloppy pilot and then try to 'fix' it using the right pilot.
Some day when I'm feeling really cocky and bored.
LOL
al
I haven't, lately.
I'm no expert but one of the reasons I didn't get a lathe for 20yrs was reamer chatter...... I remember how much it sucked from years ago.
But things have changed.
Nowadays between chambering thru-the-headstock, driving with finger pressure and CLOSELY FITTED PILOTS I find it not to be a problem. This thing about closely fitted pilots can't be stressed enough IMO. I've spoken with real machinists using real (quarter mil and up) lathes, all American Made and stuff, and they've complained about fighting chatter while using my reamers...... yet I've used the same reamers WITH the perfect pilot (I've got the time to order the stuff) and had no problems.
One of these daze I intend to induce chatter with a sloppy pilot and then try to 'fix' it using the right pilot.
Some day when I'm feeling really cocky and bored.
LOL
al
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
Hey Tommy, Merry Christmas.
I had a few Hart 3-grooves and they all shot fine except the one that was 15.5 twist. Ed Watson had some 65 grain bullets on 750 jackets and that solved that problem.
As to indicating odd numbered groove barrels, not a problem. Just slide a snug fitting reamer bushing to where you ant to indicate and use the bore of that bushing.
I had a few Hart 3-grooves and they all shot fine except the one that was 15.5 twist. Ed Watson had some 65 grain bullets on 750 jackets and that solved that problem.
As to indicating odd numbered groove barrels, not a problem. Just slide a snug fitting reamer bushing to where you ant to indicate and use the bore of that bushing.