Front Rest Stop -- Use or Not Use

T

thumper4fun

Guest
I have one of Butch's toggle tops on an Eagle base and shoot both point blank and 500 yd matches with it at our local club. Up to this point I have used the front stop while pushing the rifle back to battery. However, I have been thinking recently that I may be better off not using it. Can you guys please give me your thoughts pros & cons regarding the use of the front rest stop?
 
Use it....every time. There are enough variables in the shooting game, why add one more?

The pros...you will shoot better.

The cons...you will shoot worse.

Don't you just love a simple answer?? :D
 
Use the front stop to assure you are starting out with rifle in same spot on bags each time.
Do not pin the rifle against the stop with your shoulder this can be very erratic particularly if you lift up back leg of your rest off the bench.

Dick
 
Y'all telling Wilbur he's wrong? He's a gracious host, but I imagine there are limits...

Here's how I do it/did it whatever. There's nothing much to process....

I don't use a front stop. They cause problems such as Markhor is having. If he tossed that front stop he could push the rifle further forward and eliminate his problem - but I digress.

Not using a front stop I fire a shot, reload, put my left hand on the rear bag, look through the scope and as I'm pushing the rifle forward the crosshair magically goes straight to where I want to aim. When it gets there, I pull the trigger and repeat three more times for a total of five shots. Actually, the first shot doesn't take any of your 15 seconds so that leaves 3.75 seconds per shot.

About that magical crosshair travel...that comes from hand eye coordination developed over a bazillion shots. As I push the rifle forward, my left had moves/squeezes/nudges the rear bag left or right as necessary. I don't even know how it does it - it just does. Without the front stop the vertical component is adjusted with my right hand (rifle position) without any thought on my part.

When you "run 'em" you glance at the flags while loading in an attempt to detect a change such that you need to stop. Any more than a glance and you should stop anyway because you are no longer running. Basically it's a suicide mission that very often ends with a really good target. Once burned (usually pretty bad) a competitor is reluctant to try it again but here's another question to ponder. Would you prefer to win every now and then or lose every time just because you don't want to get burned?

Alternatively, you can watch the flags carefully, make sure that you and your rifle is in the exact same position for every shot and shoot when the flags are the same for every shot. I wish you good luck with that approach. All too often you'll find yourself in quite a pickle at the one minute warning and get burned. Of course, that doesn't count as getting burned because you were trying to do it "right" - a victim of circumstances so to speak.

Tony Boyer said, "The most important decision you make is when to start your group." It follows that if you're not gonna shoot your shots right then and there you can start just anytime you like.
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Last edited by Wilbur; 01-10-2012 at 04:20 AM.​
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here is a test that wont take you very long to perform

start with a good shooting 10.5 lb rifle -like shooting low .2 aggs

set up with the foreend 2 inches in front of the bag [ 2 inch overhang]

fire group and move foreend one inch forward

fire group and move foreend another inch forward

fire group and move forend another inch forward.

fire group and move forend another inch forward.

fire a group and report your results. one agg and you got your answer for your rifle.

a 17 lb rifle might react a whole lot different.
 
If you don't fiddle with your rest, and your bags were settled before the first shot, the rifle has to be pretty much at the same place for the cross hair to be back at the same point of aim...stop or no. I seem to remember reading that one very successful short range shooter pins his rifle. Some touch the stop and pull back a fraction, others don't use one. All probably found their styles by trying different approaches to see what worked the best with their bags and rifle. I suggest you do the same.
 
Charles - doesn't bother me in the least for folks to post opposing opinions. There is, however, only one first place trophy and we have so many choices....
 
Years ago when 2 guys started shooting at 1000 yards with a 80 lb. heavy gun, they shared the same gun. They used the same lot of powder, same primers and same bullets. The one guy always shot smaller than the other. They couldn't figure out why. They thought it was because the one shot before the other one and then they got changed around and the results were the same. By the end of the year they figured the stop on the ones rest was about an inch different. When they changed the stop and made them the same; they both shot about the same. This shows what Ray Porter was saying in his post. Another time a fellow was shooting his 16.5 lb. gun at 1000 and his stop came off in the record string. He came back and told me what happened and said he kept going because he was afraid conditions would change. When the target came back the first five were a nice group and the last five were really bad. A lot of vertical. Matt
 
I should have qualified my post as pertaining to rifles that have some angle on their butts, as is required on short range BR rifles. For longer ranges, where this is not a requirement, I can see where a stop and determining the best setting, would be very important. Different rifles, different realities. I have done some work with different placements on my PPC, and luckily, probably due to the relatively short barrel and very stiff forend, it does not seem to be too sensitive to bag placement, but, if I am shooting free farther forward works better, primarily because of weight distribution and tracking. With a light hold, shouldering the rifle, these considerations go away.
 
Whether you use a stop of not, the post that Matt made, and the test Ray lists, is important. Where you have the forearm on the rest can noticeably change the rifle' performance.
 
this is a game of details. the subtle interaction of those details can on occasion be disastrous. many threads are started and much is written in connection with the balance of the rifle when building. to not pay attention to balance after the rifle is built can result in less that stellar results on target.
as Wilbur says 'we have so many choices'
as the old Templar said in the Indiana Jones movie 'choose wisely'
 
I guess if you have bags that doesn´t settle from shot to shot, it won´t matter much if you use the front stop or not. The rifle will end up in the same spot anyways!
 
You Bet. Watching Gene Bukys shoot is a lesson in the way it can be done. When you watch him, it really doesn't seem like he is shooting that fast. But suddenly he is finished.

Non wasted motion is the key. I really wish I could shoot the way Gene does, but try as I may, I simply cannot master the technique.

But then, I can't play Guitar like Eric Clapton either........jackie
 
I would be happy being able to put down a flat .200 2-gun agg on a regular basis as well... I guess the front stop or not isn´t the main issue for most of us.
 
Boyer, Ratigan, Buckeys, Doc, Schmidt and 100 other world class shooters all have their own style. Some are similar. There may even be some that are the same but they are not all the same.
The most important thing you can do is try some of the things that are known to work, pick and choose till you find what works for you, hone it practice it and even dream about it, till you get it right.
Then you will know what works best for you.
A fella in an art gallery once said if we were all the same and all liked the same thing we would only need 1 artist and 1 style. Same goes for music, cars and benchrest.
 
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