Front bag question - Seb

PHaxell

New member
Hi guys,

I have searched the site for the last hour trying to find some answers to this question. Maybe you can help.
I have a Kelbly SPG stocked Panda and for 6 months have been trying to get it to ride squarely in my SEB front bag. Before that I had another cordura bag, same problem.
I have tried all sorts of panelbeating to make the front bag completely square on the sides and bottom, but cannot get the corners square. Despite firm tension at the front, on recoil, the rifle tends to twist, which causes problems when I am going like hell with my string. I pack the bag with zircon sand and pretty firm too.
How do you boys beat your bags into shape to make the edges square and the rifle ride nicely? Will it get better with use?

Thanks to all who reply.
Peter
 
Peter,

Not that I am any sort of authority but this is what I came up with after messing about with about half a dozen rear bags and four front ones ! I ended up with Edgewood front and rear, they are excellent bags.

The Edgewood front bag seems to work fine. The Edgewood has a pretty firm body and a layer of something firm under the top surface so it holds it's shape very well, much better than a Protektor Cordura bag that I had before. After just a little use the bag takes a square shape that matches the stock nicely. The edge of the firm layer at the top surface of the bag stops in the right place to promote a nice square edge in the area at the sides of the forend.

I back off the side tension, slide the forend in from behind (not from above) and then firm the side tension up again. The stock has enough of a narrowing up the sides of the forend away from the widest area that the sides of the bag will tend to lock the stock down, couldn't do that with the Protektor.

It might be worth trying packing the front bag with normal sand rather than Zircon. The Zircon is so fine that it will fall away and settle given the slightest chance. Normal sand with a bigger grain size and no fines will hold a shape better with just a small amount of tension since the particles interlock far better than the Zircon. I have some dried and sieved sand that I think works well in bags if you want some. For what it is worth I use Zircon only in the rear bag base where it is packed quite hard and doesn't need to move to conform to the stock. In the rear bag the firm packing doesn't make the Zircon's tendency to settle into a problem. The front bag and rear bag ears get the more coarse sand.

Bryce
 
Peter ...

Here's what Tom "Speedy" Gonzalez, a Benchrest Hall-of-Famer, has to say about bags.

SAND BAGS & HOW TO FILL THEM ... By Speedy

Back in the old days, about the time Fred Flintstone was still alive, I worked for Pat McMillan for free, from time to time to learn all his secrets.
One day little Speedy was filling some new sand bags out behind Pat's shop, stuffing them with more sand than Taco Bell put beans in their Burritos. When Pat stepped out the back door and inquired as to what in the hell was I doing packing them there bags the way I was.

I looked up at him with eyes like a kid with his hands in a cookie jar. My reply must have sounded like Homer Simpson "Doooh". Finally I said "I don't know, Boss. I just thought you were supposed to fill these babies up and go shoot.
I got that "You dumb bastard look" from Pat and I knew it was lecture time.
Speedy! Speedy! Speedy! (Now, I knew I had best go get a coke and a sandwich. We were gonna be here a while). This was what he told me.
You can not have two bags filled so hard that you gun bounces on them in the process of firing round at your target, especially if you have a rig with a very flexible stock. The bags must be set up in a manner for them to absorb the initial shock of the firing pin moving forward and igniting the primer. Then maintain their shape and absorb the second shock wave as well the rearward thrust and torque of the rifle.

What happens to the rifle when this is not done? Well let me tell you. The rifles have a very bad tendency to jump and roll in the bags. This causes many of those wild, lost shots that one can't explain. You know! The one that should have been in there and is now sitting all by itself like the red headed kid nobody likes. (I’m not talking about you Bill Dorsey, I still love ya man!)

Charles Huckaba, Ken Terrell, Larry Baggett and some of us Texas shooters talk about this phenomena quite often. We have all agreed that -

1: You can not have two hard bags in your set up.
2: Heavy sand magnifies these phenomena.
3: If you are a bag squeezer, pack ears hard and leave bag pliable enough to squeeze for the movement required. You may pack front bag as hard as rules permit.
4: Free recoil shooters pack both bags firm, but not so hard as to allow stock jump. Especially if you have a stock with a very flexible forearm.
5: We use play ground sand also know as silica sand. I sift mine to get any large impurities out then mix it with 25% to 50% with Harts parakeet gravel to the desired hardness that I am looking for. The bird gravel keeps the sand from packing itself into that solid as a brick state. Speaking of bricks another thing that happens when shooters employ that heavy zircon sand is the ears form a low spot under them from recoil and then tend to rock back and forth with the rifle causing many low shots to crop up. Edgewood makes an Edgewood/Speedy rear bag. These are specially reinforced under the ears to eliminate this scenario.

One last note if you use the new Cordura bags keep them sprayed with a good silicon spray or "Rain-Ex". This keeps them from getting sticky.

Well, Boss try that and see if it helps.

Speedy

P.S.: I do not like the double stitched leather bottoms. While this seems like a good idea, I see more shooters have problems because of them. They tend to slide around the bench and or slide with the rifle on recoil. The standard Protector with Cordura rabbit ears and an Otto ring bag with a Cordura front would be what I would suggest to the new shooter or one of the Edgewood / Speedy rear bags. Source: http://benchrest.netfirms.com/Benchrest Basics.htm
 
I try to avoid heavy sand in my front bag and in the ears of my rear bag. Look for regular sand that is "sharp" (more points and angles, less rounded) This sort of sand holds its shape better. The heavy sands that I have seen act more like a liquid because of their particle shape and size. Also, every so often I redistribute the sand in my front bag. A piece of 3/4" dowel works well for this.
 
Thanks boys

Thanks guys. Especially that one from you Abintx. Really helpful post.
I think I will remove the zircon and start again from scratch with normal sand to see how that goes.
Thanks for the help.

Peter
 
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