"Fishing" for new shooters

S

smoke

Guest
As usual at this time of year, there are several threads about new games and new categories to attract more shooters to our benchrest sport. Some of the ideas and comments have been unusually well presented,but we remain rather fragmented as far as reaching any form of concensus Another way of getting some more participation, without developing a separate classification(eg "factory" rifle) and the attendant problems, might be to "fish in the right waters" for new shooters. As has been pointed out by many others, junior and young family shooters either find new interests or cannot reconcile family priorities in order to continue our sport. Where should we look then? Frankly, we should take a good look at focusing on older, financially secure, folks who have some background with weapons - retired police officers, military retired of all services, etc. Where to find them - The local VFW, American Legion and VA ; Then there are others, with perhaps little exposure to shooting, who are frankly lonely, bored or tired oftheir daily routine. Where to find them? Try other civic organizations, Elks , Civitan etc. You probably either belong to one or know a shooter who does. These are a few places to "fish", but there are many others - church, bowling league etc. but you have to ASK around a bit (keep your line in the water). At your gun club, troll the skeet or trap range, centerfire and "silly wet" shooters - the list goes on. After having been a match director for several years and having new shooters c ome and go, I am convinced that if each of us makes a conscious effort to attract a new shooter to the game at every chance we can grow the sport. And, it can be done without radical change to what we have. Happy New Year and "Every shooter recruit a new shooter" Bob
 
Bob

Look at the number of people who shot one event and never came back.We are doing something wrong.
 
It is very important to have the right game

inspireart said:
When a new shooter contacts us about our sport an email greeting is sent back by one of the Match Directors. The greeting usually states:
"Welcome to Vintage Benchrest!"

"We are a fun oriented group. We try to maintain a laid back attitude. We have guys and gals of all levels of experience and backgrounds. We have RBA Hall of Fame members, competitive chunk gun shooters and people that have never shot benchrest before. What unites us all is the desire for a fun, low cost and competitive shooting sport. Welcome and we do value safety above all else."

The genesis of tour game did not emerge overnight. It was the product of the experience and a vision gleaned from other club level games and other venues. The best features of each were grafted into a common game we refer to as Vintage Benchrest. It has attracted the attention and patronage of shooters from a variety of backgrounds and skill levels who share a common interest in Smallbore competitive shooting. It took a lot of effort and support from a lot of people to get the first season under our belts. While the game may not suit every individual’s specific preferences, collectively, it certainly works for the vast majority of shooters who choose to shoot with us.

We are growing and attracting a lot of new shooters. Our experienced shooters with an ARA, RBA and or BR-50 background like our game as well.

Something we will also offer next year are benchrest clinics to anyone interested. These will include some class time and some range time where we will cover some fundamental concepts.

We have embraced the electronic media. Communication is by e-mail and website. We have embraced those who shoot with us not just as competitors but as part of our community. Wives used to just come to hang out, now they compete because they saw how much fun we were having.

Yes, this not the old way of doing things but if we want a future of competitive shooting we need to bring some passion and new ideas to the table.

Finally our concept really goes back to the whole community getting together after Church on a Sunday afternoon and having a "Shoot". If you have ever seen an old Blackpowder Chunk Gun, these were used rested in an early form of benchrest.

http://vintagebenchrest.com

Regards, Bruce
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We are having pretty darn success with new shooters!
 
Bruce , It sounds like you have something going well at your club. Please describe your program in general terms on the thread you started - it may be of general interest. My approach differs from yours in that I am currently of the opinion that we have venues that have been working for years albeit with some problems,and that a new game is not necessarily the answer to obtaining new shooters. I will, however, be looking forward to seeing your outline and will keep an open mind. Bob
 
thought

Well the biggest reason is money if you shooters that go to all the shoots would keep track of how much it cost for guns ammo travel practice you will understand why most cant afford it it is a rich mans sport to be in the top 10 . Most of the working people can just make ends meet.
 
The countries cultural drift is not helping any either
When was the last time you knew a 12 year old that got a 22 for Christmas..or even asked for one
Don
 
Smoke,
If we had half of the regular folks that post here recently at matches then IR50/50, RBA and ARA would grow by some....50%. If I'm wrong then let me know.

Carp
 
it is a rich mans sport to be in the top 10 . Most of the working people can just make ends meet.
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There again it's likely to be older shooters who have gotten their kids off in the world that will have some money to spare for an expensive hobby. I still have 2 kids in college but one of them is making money while he's in school. You can't imagine how much less money that means we have to shell out. By this time next year my daughter will be out of college too most likely unless she also wants to go to graduate school.

I would agree with smoke that older shooters might be the key to bringing in new blood. And it could be they could have an influence on their kids and granchildren to want to shoot. There are a lot of kids who wouldn't think about going hunting but might like shooting. That's about how my kids are. I don't think they have a problem with hunting it's just that they aren't interested like my generation was. They have a lot more entertainment choices than we did.
 
We have all heard it for memberships in all kinda of organizations.

We could double the membership (shooters) if each shooter recruited one new shooter.
 
James Wilson said:
Well the biggest reason is money if you shooters that go to all the shoots would keep track of how much it cost for guns ammo travel practice you will understand why most cant afford it it is a rich mans sport to be in the top 10 . Most of the working people can just make ends meet.
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You are right on James. Over the last year my interest went from wanting to shoot in as many matches as I could -to wondering if maybe I should just find another Hobie. I haven't decided anything yet but I a leaning towards looking at another venue. If you complain about cost of Eley ammo you are told if you cant pay -don't play. Where is the help in that .Then the forum has always got someone with a agenda or a problem with someone and everybody is fighting with each other like a bunch of school boys. We are supposed to be grown men who can accept differences but not agree. The cost of a good rifle -stock- barrel scope bedding job etc is in access of 2000.00. You can see where I'm going with this. If some of you guys want to grow this sport lets work togeather to bring down the cost . give people that show some interest all the time and help that you can. Find out why an American company can't or wont make ammo at a competitive price to Eley and brake their monopoly on good target ammo. Remington -Winchester etc can make more money selling cheap bulk pack ammo that is copper or gold washed and is not good enough to compete with in the rifles that bench rest shooters shoot. I hope all the fighting on the forum will stop and folks that are looking for answers can come here and find those answers. Newbies are going to have to do some of the work themselves instead of looking for the person that is willing to give them a easy road. It takes work on your own. i don't see where some of you can afford to buy two or three cases of ammo at a time-afford to run all over the country pay motel bills, eat out and buy gas to get to and from an event. If you would sit down and figure up the cost of all this for a year you will find that it is a good bit of money that could be better used invested in something to make you a little money. I have had the pleasure to meet a bunch of great folks in the time I have spent in this Hobie and gotten to make some really good friends In order for this sport to grow you are going to have to find a way to cut some cost. find a way to keep the interest of the new shooter- make rules that are fair to everyone and stop all the in fighting. it scares people away. Happy New Year folks' God knows it can' get much worst than it has been.
 
Don Stith said:
The countries cultural drift is not helping any either
When was the last time you knew a 12 year old that got a 22 for Christmas..or even asked for one
Don
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Hi Don,

To some degree I do agree with you, but some 14 year old now wants my Citori!

Guys I have been told all my life if you want to be successful in anything, model whatever you do after successful people. Here is a link that will show you the road map of how to do it.

http://www.agfc.com/education-class/programs/ayssp.aspx

Actually, the how to is not there, but you can find out about the organization. The how to is to study how we did it. The Arkansas Game and Fish Dept decided 4 years ago that they needed to do something to build firearm interest in the youth of our state, or they AFG was going to run out of hunters and fishermen before too long.

We finished our third season of trapshooting for grades 6-12. The first year, the AGF projected there would be 500 participants....they had 1200. The second year, the year I started coaching, they projected 1500 and ended up with 2500. Last year, the year we got it into our local school system, AFG projected 3000 and we had 4150 +/- with over 450 coaches. I got an email from the director two weeks ago that said we had lost about 150 coaches, but now had a total of over 600 coaches and several more schools have come on board and project the number of shooters to be over 5000.

Why trapshooting? That is the question I ask the director the first time I ever met him. His answer surprised me, but should not have. "Shotguns are just more politically correct". I then ask if there were plans to ever expand into other venues like .22 rifle and pistol. He grinned real big and said, "we had to start somewhere, and shotguns is where we started, but our desire is to expand similar programs to about every area of outdoors type of shooting we can". Whether they can be successful with that or not, depends on those that are now involved in the trapshooting portion.

If you want to grow your sport, two things are going to have to happen.

1. Someone is going to have to take the lead and dog the higher powers in your state to emulate the program that Arkansas has started. It doesn't have to be shotgunning either, but somebody has to get it started. Hammer your state reps until they take a look at what is happening here.

2. It is going to have to be affordable. The Arkansas Game and Fish Commission determined that if this was going to work they were going to have to fund it. The Commission provides ammo for 5 practices, eye and hearing protection, loaner guns and trap machines all at no cost to the student or their parent. Of course, the loaner guns and machines are required to be under the protection and care of a head coach of the team. The AFG provides each student and coach with insurance from Feb 1 through the end of July, unless some of our students qualify for national or international competition, which some of them did last year.

Am I tooting the horn for the AFG and their program.....you bet I am. But the reason I do so, is because just like you, I love bench rest, silhouette both rife and pistol and most any kind of shooting you can do. The model is there. Get it in gear, go to your state reps and hammer and hammer and hammer until they get the message.


Mike
 
And make sure that if you say you are going to do it, that you do it! Don't make any promises that you can't keep, and for Gods sake don't take any money or donations that are not accounted for and used for what you say they are going to be used for.

Nothing turns off good folks who are willing to help out more than seeing their donations unaccounted for.

So keep a transparent system and acknowledge those who have paid and donated.

Make sure that the "Lead" you choose or appoint is trustworthy.
 
Gordon that is true. In the program here in Arkansas, it is a state agency with the director being directly accountable to the AFG Commissioners.

Mike
 
It's an expensive sport

I left .22 benchrest shooting because I was tired of holding up the bottom of the match results. I shot BR for almost 10 years, but was never very successful because I couldn't keep up with the price of ammo, gas, and motel rooms. BR shooting does require an expensive commitment of time and money that many people can't justify. I don't believe the sport will ever grow much past it current level of participation for this reason. I will say that I miss hanging out at the matches with the friends I made over the years, but all good things do come to an end. Happy New Year, AL W.
 
A lot of good points

As Al pointed out, and many other have on this site, it takes money to compete.
If your not so lucky, as some have already pointed out, they don't have any matches close by and thus have to travel. Not sure about all but at 58 I don't do to good sleeping in the car anymore thus requiring a motel room, even shopping around for something clean your going to spend 50 bucks a night easy for such. Tank or two of gas, ammo, throw in this or that, easily spent 200-300 dollars for a match, do three or four in a month and not hard to see what one has spent. Now with that said I know it's easy to spend just as much if not more for other hobbies. I'm a ex Texas coast fisherman and actually gave it up to do this. Go price boats, maintenance, gas, easy to use 100 gallons of gas in a weekend etc.... This is cheaper by far. Now maybe it's just me, the matches I attend, and yes everyone is really great folks and I enjoy visiting with them, but you get there and it seems like it's a race to get setup, get the match over as fast as you can, and don't be standing in the way in the parking lot for you'll get run over with everyone getting the hell out of Dodge as fast as they can. Not much shop talk, testing of rifles, etc maybe no one wants to do such and that's the way it is. It varies from range to range but overall you almost get the feeling that let's get this over with so I can get the hell out of here.
Oh well I'm still a relatively newbie, 2 seasons at this, and I do enjoy it, but dang I'm sure starting to miss the smell of salt water in the morning, wind blowing in the face as your running that scooter boat across the back coastel lakes chasing Redfish. :)

Les
 
Hi Smoke,
I have been in the game of rimfire benchrest about ten years. Declining shooter participation
has been decried every one of thoesyears. All manner of induceiments have been used to get the average guy with a family, wife and mortgage in to the game. Some worked well and some (most) didn't.
Everyone has a pet theory as to the lack of success of these programs. I think that mine is the most succinct. It's the total cost of money involved to be competitative. Sure. Joe Sixpac can enter his marlin 39A in a match,and have a lot of the often touted "fun". But finishing dead last a few times kind'a kills that fun in a hurry.
Ours is an expensive game and not everyone has or is willing to spend the kind of money neccessary.
Smoke, I'm not ondemning any efforts to enlarge our base.,,,,,,,,,I support them.
Hey ! I'm pullin' for you, we'er all in this together. (With opologies to Red Green)
Ed Collier
 
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w maybe it's just me, the matches I attend, and yes everyone is really great folks and I enjoy visiting with them, but you get there and it seems like it's a race to get setup, get the match over as fast as you can, and don't be standing in the way in the parking lot for you'll get run over with everyone getting the hell out of Dodge as fast as they can.
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I've been to exactly one competitive shoot and I got the feeling I was holding everyone up at every step. I had no time to get setup to shoot correctly. I tried to sneak in a little time just to figure out how to set up my rest and I got jumped on for it. I felt like I was in a rush to learn all the rules while everyone else was anxious to get started and they were looking at me wondering why I was having a problem. Well yeah, I did have a problem. I had no chance at all to really setup except to stop during the shooting time to try to figure it out. My rest was an absolute joke as a result. I've talked about this before but with no chance to set your rifle in a decent rest you have zero chance to do well. I ended up holding the butt of my rifle with both hands if that tells you anything. You can imagine how well I controlled the rifle trying to hold it that way.

I intend to join the club so I can go out and shoot when I have time to get setup but I can tell you that all the new shooters that were there the night I was had to feel rushed too. They said they had more shooters for their factory class shoot than ever before so right there was a bunch of folks who were interested in shooting that probably had an experience that was less than stellar. Also the shoot started at 6 which gave me about 5 minutes extra to get there on time after work. I'm disabled myself but my wife works and we only keep one car running because we don't really need two. Still anyone with a job that ends at 5 is going to have a heck of a time to run home and get his equipment and then make it to the shoot on time not to mention how tired they would be trying to get there so quickly after work.

I don't know if other clubs shoot at this time but it was a big factor with me and always will be. A friend of mine was going to go with me but I didn't have time to pick him up. There needs to be more time for new people to get setup and more time for everyone to make it there after work.
 
King, a match director has an obligation to run a match as advertised so everyone can plan accordingly. That said, during a registered match is not the time to try to learn and be competitive. If you had called, I bet someone would have picked you up, picked your friend up, spent as long as needed to sort your equipment out and show you the procedure for the match...before the schedualed start time. I'll make special trips to the range to set up anyone that wants to know anything about the game and most others will too. Call and ask for help and you will get it. By the way, we started at 6 for a while and then changed to 7PM. The problem is light if you are not on a lighted range and the number of targets the group wants to shoot.
 
That said, during a registered match is not the time to try to learn and be competitive. If you had called, I bet someone would have picked you up, picked your friend up, spent as long as needed to sort your equipment out and show you the procedure for the match...before the schedualed start time.
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I knew exactly one person from that club before I went there. He was very helpful but asking someone to drive 25 miles to pick you up and another 10 to pick up your friend and then to take us both home would be a tremendous burden on that person. I had no opportunity at all to even see the range ahead of time even though I tried. I went by the range and it was locked up tight.

There's just no way I could expect anyone to do the things you mentioned. I don't want to burden someone else for anything although I'm sure some would be willing to do it. It's just not something I could feel comfortable doing.

I will be able to go the range myself after I join the club, which should be very soon. I already picked up the rules for the shoot. They were simple. What wasn't simple was getting setup to shoot well. When the match is run through quickly there's only so many questions you can ask before people get antsy. The people there were very friendly but I could tell they were in a hurry. You might think it's the directors responsiblity to run the match as advertised but when the match is run like a race you will have a lot of people who get discouraged because they didn't have time to get setup. I would have been there early if I had a chance but at 6 that just isn't possible for me and I suspect a lot of other people.

These are just suggestions on my part. I'm not complaining. I have a plan to get accustomed to the range. I'm just saying the situation I faced could lead a lot of people away from that range. When you shoot far below your capability most people don't like that. If you say anything about it you come off like a whiner or someone who is making claims they can't back up. Believe me I got exactly that treatment from people on this board.

But again the people at the club were very helpful. They were just in a hurry when they didn't really need to be IMO. I can certainly see that people have lives to go home to but if it's new shooters you want then some allowance should be made for their needs. There was a record crowd at the factory rifle shoot I attended so I'm guessing there were others who were pretty new to the experience. Most of them probably did have someone they could go to the range with early or on a different day. But I didn't. I was just trying to make the point that new shooters need some time to get set up and putting them on a stool and giving them 30 seconds to get ready isn't really conducive to letting those people get comfortable. Maybe they did need to run the match quickly for the regular shooters but some allowances needed to be made in my case and in the case of others I suspect. But like I said I will have that worked out soon. And I will attend sanctioned ARA events before I attempt to shoot there but that will be after I get a new gun.

Again my only purpose for making these comments was as a suggestion for things that might make newbies feel more comfortable. No one wants to show up and shoot really badly because they weren't ready and they weren't given a chance to get ready. The people at the shoot were very helpful and friendly but time was a definite issue.

For those members who shoot at the club please don't think I'm complaining. I'm not. I will be back. I really enjoyed being there.
 
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