Exporting from the U.S. ?

Lynn post #34 you are wrong

you indicated that if the bullets you shipped had a bill in them they would have been confiscated, RESPECTFULLY ONCE AGAIN YOU ARE WRONG-O-LA

the Canadian postal service has a legal obligation to determine the value of products entering canada in order to determine the GST (goods and services tax) of 5% to be paid on all items entering Canada. (exceptions are products under a value of $5 as it costs more to collect the tax than just send the item on to the final destination). and at Christmas time they let goods into the ocuntry to make christmas day rather than hold them up at the border so send your drugs at that time,

The proper procedure in the case of your bullets was for the customs officer to send a note to the end user to provide a bill of sale or proof of value within 30 days or in the absence of said proof the items will be returned to the sender or escheated to the Crown in right of the Dominion of Canada.

It would only be destroyed if your USA government decided to inspect the parcel before it entered Canada. Perhaps the USA folks would not appreciate a bill with Lynn's name on it as then they might have the BATF pay a little visit to Lynn asking why Lynn had not provided a valid export permit to have the goods leave the USA en route to a final destination in Canada.

Please do not make assumptions as to what may or may not happen based on a personal experience that you had, as that is how misinformation gets passed along,

I am sure that even though your tone is somewhat condesending at times you meant well,

Please take this the way it is intended, to assist in the correction of information provided by way of example, that was not entirely correct.

(see even jeffy can be polite at times, I am proud of me today)

Jefferson
(part time legal counsel to revenue canada and the incompetent postal serivce at times)
 
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Unprimed cases and lead/copper bullets are mailable.

Dennis
There is no egg here.Look at your own post.Unprimed cases and bullets are mailable just like I quoted in an earlier post while nuclear warheads are not.Maybe You and Peter Dobson should read before you post what we in the U.S. can do.
Lynn


Sec. 126.5 Canadian exemptions.

(a) General. District directors of customs and postmasters may permit the
export without a license of any unclassified defense article or any
unclassified technical data to Canada for end-use in Canada or return to
the United States, with the exception of the articles or technical data
listed in paragraph (b) of this section

They are not interested in a bag of 257 roberts brass going to your favorite hunting buddy.
Here is what I said before you and Peter said I was posting drivel.You are the one needing to make an omlette as you have consistantly had egg on your face for as long as I can remember.


V. EXEMPTIONS
A. LICENSING EXEMPTIONS: The ITAR provides for certain exemptions relative to the
transfers of firearms and ammunition. Please read the complete applicable section of the ITAR:
• 123.17(b) Obsolete firearms and models -Non-automatic firearms that were
manufactured on or before 1898, as well as replicas of such firearms, are exempt.
• 123. 17(c) Temporary export of firearms and ammunition for personal use -U.S.
persons may export temporarily not more than three non-automatic firearms and not
more than 1,000 cartridges of ammunition provided this is for the person's exclusive
use and not for re-export or other transfer of ownership (i.e., firearms for use on
hunting trips or sporting events).
• 123.17(a) Minor components -Components and parts for Category I firearms are
exempt from licensing requirements when the total value does not exceed $100
wholesale in any single transaction. Barrels, cylinders, receivers (frames), or
complete breech mechanisms are major components and require a license.
• 123.18 Firearms for personal use for members of the U.S. armed forces and
civilian employees of the U.S. Government -Non-automatic firearms may be
exported for personal use and not for resale or transfer of ownership if the firearms
are accompanied by written authorization from the commanding officer or Chief of
the U.S. Diplomatic Mission.
7
 
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Lynn said:
Unprimed cases and lead/copper bullets are mailable.

Dennis
There is no egg here.Look at your own post.Unprimed cases and bullets are mailable just like I quoted in an earlier post while nuclear warheads are not.Maybe You and Peter Dobson should read before you post what we in the U.S. can do.
Lynn


Sec. 126.5 Canadian exemptions.

(a) General. District directors of customs and postmasters may permit the
export without a license of any ***unclassified defense article or any
unclassified technical data to Canada for end-use in Canada or return to
the United States, with the exception of the articles or technical data
listed in paragraph (b) of this section

They are not interested in a bag of 257 roberts brass going to your favorite hunting buddy.
Here is what I said before you and Peter said I was posting drivel.You are the one needing to make an omlette as you have consistantly had egg on your face for as long as I can remember.
Click to expand...

So you still have not had a reply from the State Department...?

***unclassified defense article

***Brass cases and bullets are classified and not exempt.

Please post the State Departments reply.
 
***unclassified defense article

***Brass cases and bullets are classified and not exempt.

Unprimed cases and lead/copper bullets are mailable

Your confusing yourself now.
Waterboy



V. EXEMPTIONS
A. LICENSING EXEMPTIONS: The ITAR provides for certain exemptions relative to the
transfers of firearms and ammunition. Please read the complete applicable section of the ITAR:
• 123.17(b) Obsolete firearms and models -Non-automatic firearms that were
manufactured on or before 1898, as well as replicas of such firearms, are exempt.
• 123. 17(c) Temporary export of firearms and ammunition for personal use -U.S.
persons may export temporarily not more than three non-automatic firearms and not
more than 1,000 cartridges of ammunition provided this is for the person's exclusive
use and not for re-export or other transfer of ownership (i.e., firearms for use on
hunting trips or sporting events).
• 123.17(a) Minor components -Components and parts for Category I firearms are
exempt from licensing requirements when the total value does not exceed $100
wholesale in any single transaction. Barrels, cylinders, receivers (frames), or
complete breech mechanisms are major components and require a license.
• 123.18 Firearms for personal use for members of the U.S. armed forces and
civilian employees of the U.S. Government -Non-automatic firearms may be
exported for personal use and not for resale or transfer of ownership if the firearms
are accompanied by written authorization from the commanding officer or Chief of
the U.S. Diplomatic Mission.
7
 
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Lynn,

Unprimed cases and lead/copper bullets are mailable. (That does not mean you can legally export them from the US without an export license)

It appears you don't believe me, you don't believe licensed importers in Canada who deal with the US restrictions on exporting from the US, you don't believe individuals in Canada who export from the US, you don't believe US members of Benchrest Central who are licensed exporters and are knowledgeable in the export restrictions.


If you ever receive a reply from the State Department please post it.
 
Dennis
If you look at my posts you will see I haven't changed a thing about what I am talking about.Joe Six-Pack is whom I'm talking about not Cabela's,not Midway USA and not a FFL licensed gunsmith.You have never figured that out in 6 pages of posts and for the life of me I can't see how you keep getting away from that.
Down here we call what I am talking about as GIFTS given to a hunting buddy and I thought I was extremely clear about this in all of my posts,apperantly I was wrong.If money changes hands all bets are off.
If you go back and read my quote it says a POSTMASTER can allow you to send de-classified items to Canada.The exemption is from the State Departments own website.
WaterboyV. EXEMPTIONS
A. LICENSING EXEMPTIONS: The ITAR provides for certain exemptions relative to the
transfers of firearms and ammunition. Please read the complete applicable section of the ITAR:
• 123.17(b) Obsolete firearms and models -Non-automatic firearms that were
manufactured on or before 1898, as well as replicas of such firearms, are exempt.
• 123. 17(c) Temporary export of firearms and ammunition for personal use -U.S.
persons may export temporarily not more than three non-automatic firearms and not
more than 1,000 cartridges of ammunition provided this is for the person's exclusive
use and not for re-export or other transfer of ownership (i.e., firearms for use on
hunting trips or sporting events).
• 123.17(a) Minor components -Components and parts for Category I firearms are
exempt from licensing requirements when the total value does not exceed $100
wholesale in any single transaction. Barrels, cylinders, receivers (frames), or
complete breech mechanisms are major components and require a license.
• 123.18 Firearms for personal use for members of the U.S. armed forces and
civilian employees of the U.S. Government -Non-automatic firearms may be
exported for personal use and not for resale or transfer of ownership if the firearms
are accompanied by written authorization from the commanding officer or Chief of
the U.S. Diplomatic Mission.
7
 
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The US export laws apply to everyone, not just a select group of businesses and it applies to gifts as well.

I find it hard to believe you really are as dense as this ... I think you are just trolling... just to argue with me.

Please wait until you have an answer from the State Department about the new export regulations before making any more comments.

Six pages and you don't believe licensed importers in Canada who deal with the US restrictions on exporting from the US, you don't believe individuals in Canada who export from the US, you don't believe US members of Benchrest Central who are licensed exporters and are knowledgeable in the export restrictions. The US export laws apply to everyone, not just a select group of businesses and it applies to gifts as well.
 
Dennis
I am being extremely sincere here when I state the last thing I want to do is to post on one of your posts or spend any of my time trying to convince you of anything.
As to not believing anything you post that is indeed 100% correct.I don't believe what you are saying or posting about gifts of unclassified items at all and I have shown you the exemption.In short I think your wrong.
Waterboy

V. EXEMPTIONS
A. LICENSING EXEMPTIONS: The ITAR provides for certain exemptions relative to the
transfers of firearms and ammunition. Please read the complete applicable section of the ITAR:
• 123.17(b) Obsolete firearms and models -Non-automatic firearms that were
manufactured on or before 1898, as well as replicas of such firearms, are exempt.
• 123. 17(c) Temporary export of firearms and ammunition for personal use -U.S.
persons may export temporarily not more than three non-automatic firearms and not
more than 1,000 cartridges of ammunition provided this is for the person's exclusive
use and not for re-export or other transfer of ownership (i.e., firearms for use on
hunting trips or sporting events).
• 123.17(a) Minor components -Components and parts for Category I firearms are
exempt from licensing requirements when the total value does not exceed $100
wholesale in any single transaction. Barrels, cylinders, receivers (frames), or
complete breech mechanisms are major components and require a license.
• 123.18 Firearms for personal use for members of the U.S. armed forces and
civilian employees of the U.S. Government -Non-automatic firearms may be
exported for personal use and not for resale or transfer of ownership if the firearms
are accompanied by written authorization from the commanding officer or Chief of
the U.S. Diplomatic Mission.
7
 
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Jefferson
When a parcel leaves the US through the mail it has a US postal service export label on it declaring the value of its contents.This is not a bill but an estimated value of the contents of the package.A gift worth $500 is much different than a bill for $500 and this might be confusing to some?A bill would say please send $500 for the bullets inside this box and that would not be legal without an export license.You may be confusing value of contents with Bill Of Sale or purchase order? I am only referring to Joe Six-Pack sending Joe Six-pack some free brass and not a small business trying to skirt the law in order to turn a larger profit.
Waterboy

V. EXEMPTIONS
A. LICENSING EXEMPTIONS: The ITAR provides for certain exemptions relative to the
transfers of firearms and ammunition. Please read the complete applicable section of the ITAR:
• 123.17(b) Obsolete firearms and models -Non-automatic firearms that were
manufactured on or before 1898, as well as replicas of such firearms, are exempt.
• 123. 17(c) Temporary export of firearms and ammunition for personal use -U.S.
persons may export temporarily not more than three non-automatic firearms and not
more than 1,000 cartridges of ammunition provided this is for the person's exclusive
use and not for re-export or other transfer of ownership (i.e., firearms for use on
hunting trips or sporting events).
• 123.17(a) Minor components -Components and parts for Category I firearms are
exempt from licensing requirements when the total value does not exceed $100
wholesale in any single transaction. Barrels, cylinders, receivers (frames), or
complete breech mechanisms are major components and require a license.
• 123.18 Firearms for personal use for members of the U.S. armed forces and
civilian employees of the U.S. Government -Non-automatic firearms may be
exported for personal use and not for resale or transfer of ownership if the firearms
are accompanied by written authorization from the commanding officer or Chief of
the U.S. Diplomatic Mission.
7
 
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Exports

Lynn

I am only getting back into this because I do not want someone to get in trouble. The export regulations apply to everyone in the USA--not just vendors and manufacturers. they are indeed interested in that bag of 257 Roberts brass. The regulations about exporting means a license is needed whether or not an item is gifted. You are confusing commerce department regulations with US State Department regulations.

Many ATF inspectors and Agents do not even understand the difference.

If the item falls under one of the ITAR descriptions and the brass, bullets that have been mentioned certainly do-then the regulations and requirements for license apply. Center-fire ammunition and its components fall under ITAR-period-no negotiation-no gray area--

I am not sure where you get the idea that these regulations only apply to businesses. That is like saying that a posted speed limit of 55 MPH on a highway only applies to car manufacturers and dealers.............

Jim
 
Well I am

starting to believe this.

Lynn, buddy, old pal, you interested in gifting me a few Krieger LV .237 4 grooves up here?

When and if those pieces of air manifold pipe make it up here, we can clear the air......;);) and settle this issue.:eek:

Heck that pipe cannot be more than 49.00.;);) Should make it up here like nothing.

Calvin
 
Jim

Sec. 126.5 Canadian exemptions.

(a) General. District directors of customs and postmasters may permit the
export without a license of any unclassified defense article or any
unclassified technical data to Canada for end-use in Canada or return to
the United States, with the exception of the articles or technical data
listed in paragraph (b) of this section.

Can you explain to me what an unclassified defense article is? My understanding is a Postmaster can determine if he/she allows an individual to ship a gift or present of brass cases to canada.If the package seems to be too excessive to be construed as a gift/present it is denied.

And anybody trying to sell for profit would be required to have a export license.It doesn't matter if its a large corporation a small business or an individual on E-Bay.If money changes hands or a barter/trade is made you need a license.A gift or present doesn't fit under those guidelines.

From your explanation the Canadian Exemption applies to nothing?

We keep hearing from Gunsmiths and Businesses because they are regulated directly and can't ship period without a license.

Waterboy

P.S. I don't want anybody taking my word on anything.Please check it out for yourself before attempting anything.

The State Department doesn't do e-mail responses and there is so much confusion that I will send them the 7 copies required for a answer back if Dennis will pose the question.

V. EXEMPTIONS
A. LICENSING EXEMPTIONS: The ITAR provides for certain exemptions relative to the
transfers of firearms and ammunition. Please read the complete applicable section of the ITAR:
• 123.17(b) Obsolete firearms and models -Non-automatic firearms that were
manufactured on or before 1898, as well as replicas of such firearms, are exempt.
• 123. 17(c) Temporary export of firearms and ammunition for personal use -U.S.
persons may export temporarily not more than three non-automatic firearms and not
more than 1,000 cartridges of ammunition provided this is for the person's exclusive
use and not for re-export or other transfer of ownership (i.e., firearms for use on
hunting trips or sporting events).
• 123.17(a) Minor components -Components and parts for Category I firearms are
exempt from licensing requirements when the total value does not exceed $100
wholesale in any single transaction. Barrels, cylinders, receivers (frames), or
complete breech mechanisms are major components and require a license.
• 123.18 Firearms for personal use for members of the U.S. armed forces and
civilian employees of the U.S. Government -Non-automatic firearms may be
exported for personal use and not for resale or transfer of ownership if the firearms
are accompanied by written authorization from the commanding officer or Chief of
the U.S. Diplomatic Mission.
7
 
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Calvin
If we find out I am not breaking any rules I will send you some tomato stakes.
Waterboy

V. EXEMPTIONS
A. LICENSING EXEMPTIONS: The ITAR provides for certain exemptions relative to the
transfers of firearms and ammunition. Please read the complete applicable section of the ITAR:
• 123.17(b) Obsolete firearms and models -Non-automatic firearms that were
manufactured on or before 1898, as well as replicas of such firearms, are exempt.
• 123. 17(c) Temporary export of firearms and ammunition for personal use -U.S.
persons may export temporarily not more than three non-automatic firearms and not
more than 1,000 cartridges of ammunition provided this is for the person's exclusive
use and not for re-export or other transfer of ownership (i.e., firearms for use on
hunting trips or sporting events).
• 123.17(a) Minor components -Components and parts for Category I firearms are
exempt from licensing requirements when the total value does not exceed $100
wholesale in any single transaction. Barrels, cylinders, receivers (frames), or
complete breech mechanisms are major components and require a license.
• 123.18 Firearms for personal use for members of the U.S. armed forces and
civilian employees of the U.S. Government -Non-automatic firearms may be
exported for personal use and not for resale or transfer of ownership if the firearms
are accompanied by written authorization from the commanding officer or Chief of
the U.S. Diplomatic Mission.
7
 
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From a reply [that was received in less than 3 hours] directly from Stephen M. Geis, DDTC Response Team - GeisSM@state.gov

My question in black, his response in red.

From: Sorensen's [mailto:sorensens@shaw.ca]
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 3:15 AM
To: PM-DDTC-Response-Team-DL
Subject: individuals exporting componemts



I hope you can actually answer a question rather than push me onto a link. I have searched for quite some time and can not find the information I need.

One simple question...

Can a person residing in the US export cartridge cases or bullets to a friend as a gift without obtaining import/export licenses or paperwork? Can they just simply mail it making a customs declaration on the package? I know businesses require export licenses.

Please respond as soon as possible.

Thank you,

Dennis

**************************************************​


Stephen M. Geis
DDTC Response Team
Contractor, Lionel Henderson & Co., Inc.

Individuals who export ammunition or ammunition components (cases, bullets, primers, and powder) – even as a gift-- must obtain an export license form DDTC.



NOTE: Information in this message generally discusses controls and information contained in the Arms Export Control Act and International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR), both of which are authoritative on this matter. The Response Team fields basic process and status questions, and assists exporters in identifying how to get answers to more complex questions handled by the Directorate of Defense Trade Control's licensing and compliance offices. The Response Team's services are not a substitute or replacement for the advisory opinion, general correspondence, and commodity jurisdiction processes delineated in the ITAR, which should be used to obtain authoritative guidance on export control issues, and do not in any way relieve exporters from their responsibilities to comply fully with the law and regulations.

.
 
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Paragraph b

Lynn
Not many items are unclassified.
Just read the ITAR description and you will see that anything under 50 caliber is covered by one section and everything over 50 is covered in another section. It includes entire firearms, receivers, barrels, barrel blanks, triggers, stocks, magazines, floorplates, springs, followers, trigger guards, scope bases, scope rings and on and on. For a while it was right down to scope bases and screws---now at least the screws are not classified.

Dennis's response from the fellow at State Department is rather clear as well.

What is disconcerting is a majority of gun owners in the USA do not understand what has been going on. These ITAR regulations are the result of a treaty with OAS. The treaties that our current administration are participating in the writing of are even more restrictive than what we now have. The treaties being written go beyond import and export-they are focused on ELIMINATING private firearms ownership.
 
Jim
I would rather debate Dennis than yourself but since you are posting the new guidelines came out january 19th and they are listed on The State Departments website for all to read.The link is midway down and when you click on the link an adobe folder opens up.

Under section V Exemptions is clearly states the rules on firearms and ammunition.You don't need an export license to send items valued at less than $100 to Canada.A firing pin trigger or magazine falls into that category.
Receivers and barrels require a license and it is so stated.

I will try and copy the websites pdf file to my drive and see if I can remove or cut copy and paste section V for all to read.

Believe me I am not trying to pick on Dennis I just haven't seen much good info posted lately so I was merely pointing out his error.

Respectfully Lynn aka Waterboy

Jim here are the new guidelines
V. EXEMPTIONS
A. LICENSING EXEMPTIONS: The ITAR provides for certain exemptions relative to the
transfers of firearms and ammunition. Please read the complete applicable section of the ITAR:
• 123.17(b) Obsolete firearms and models -Non-automatic firearms that were
manufactured on or before 1898, as well as replicas of such firearms, are exempt.
• 123. 17(c) Temporary export of firearms and ammunition for personal use -U.S.
persons may export temporarily not more than three non-automatic firearms and not
more than 1,000 cartridges of ammunition provided this is for the person's exclusive
use and not for re-export or other transfer of ownership (i.e., firearms for use on
hunting trips or sporting events).
• 123.17(a) Minor components -Components and parts for Category I firearms are
exempt from licensing requirements when the total value does not exceed $100
wholesale in any single transaction. Barrels, cylinders, receivers (frames), or
complete breech mechanisms are major components and require a license.
• 123.18 Firearms for personal use for members of the U.S. armed forces and
civilian employees of the U.S. Government -Non-automatic firearms may be
exported for personal use and not for resale or transfer of ownership if the firearms
are accompanied by written authorization from the commanding officer or Chief of
the U.S. Diplomatic Mission.
7
 
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Lynn, read the post above Jim's...


You now have responses from several people more knowledgeable on export laws than you. These include licensed dealers in Canada and the US, individuals in Canada and the US, and the latest information courtesy of an official spokesperson at the US State Department.

You have been wrong all through this thread.

Are you ready to admit you were mistaken and bow out?

.
 
Dennis
Rather than writing an e0mail to a contractor who doesn't know policy why don't you just read what the Department of State says on there website?

www.state.gov you click on that and right above the part in Hillary Clintons hairdo you click on Arms Control & Security.When you do this or have someone show you you will get a drop down menu.Have whomever is helping you click on Defense Trade Controls.
Now sit down and relax take a deep breath because this next steo will require you to scroll to mid page.
Once there click on The Firearms Guidelines Have Been Updated(1-19-10)

Have your freind scroll to section V Exemptions A Licensing Exemptions.
123.17(a)Minor Components

Don't worry about the egg on your face as even your contractor doesn't understand the rules.
Waterboy

P.S. I want everybody to read the state departments exemptions and report back your findings.
V. EXEMPTIONS
A. LICENSING EXEMPTIONS: The ITAR provides for certain exemptions relative to the
transfers of firearms and ammunition. Please read the complete applicable section of the ITAR:
• 123.17(b) Obsolete firearms and models -Non-automatic firearms that were
manufactured on or before 1898, as well as replicas of such firearms, are exempt.
• 123. 17(c) Temporary export of firearms and ammunition for personal use -U.S.
persons may export temporarily not more than three non-automatic firearms and not
more than 1,000 cartridges of ammunition provided this is for the person's exclusive
use and not for re-export or other transfer of ownership (i.e., firearms for use on
hunting trips or sporting events).
• 123.17(a) Minor components -Components and parts for Category I firearms are
exempt from licensing requirements when the total value does not exceed $100
wholesale in any single transaction. Barrels, cylinders, receivers (frames), or
complete breech mechanisms are major components and require a license.
• 123.18 Firearms for personal use for members of the U.S. armed forces and
civilian employees of the U.S. Government -Non-automatic firearms may be
exported for personal use and not for resale or transfer of ownership if the firearms
are accompanied by written authorization from the commanding officer or Chief of
the U.S. Diplomatic Mission.
7
 
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The exemptions mentioned on Section V are for minor firearms parts no more than U$100,00 value.

There is no exemption for amunition or its components. Unfortunately...
 
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