Do You or Don't You??? (resize 220 Russian)

[WoollyMonster]

I am talking about making fire form loads for the 6PPC out of 220 Russian brass. I have talked to a few top competitors and read books by others (some Hall of Famer's). It seems that some shooters take the 220 Russian case and:

- Expand the neck to 6mm
- Run through an FL sizing die
- Expand again
- Then turn the necks down
- Load and fire form


Believers in this method say that it gives them a defined shoulder junction to turn to. Others simply:

- Expand
- Turn down necks
- Load and fire form

Of course all the other necessary brass prep is done as well. I have 200 pieces of Lapua 220 Russian cases that I am trying to decide how to fire form for my new 6PPC. There are winners in both camps.

Any thoughts?

Regards,
Woolly

 

[DeltaBravo]

Wooly,

I'm planning on fire-forming another 50 cases (6BR Lapua blue box) on Sunday in a VFS match at my club. I did the expand, trim, turn, chamfer, load, fire on the first 50 and they were accurate enuf for my purposes.

Dennis

 

[goodgrouper]

I am talking about making fire form loads for the 6PPC out of 220 Russian brass. I have talked to a few top competitors and read books by others (some Hall of Famer's). It seems that some shooters take the 220 Russian case and:

- Expand the neck to 6mm
- Run through an FL sizing die
- Expand again
- Then turn the necks down
- Load and fire form


Believers in this method say that it gives them a defined shoulder junction to turn to. Others simply:

- Expand
- Turn down necks
- Load and fire form

Of course all the other necessary brass prep is done as well. I have 200 pieces of Lapua 220 Russian cases that I am trying to decide how to fire form for my new 6PPC. There are winners in both camps.

Any thoughts?

Regards,
Woolly

I've made cases in every way possible and even some that were very impractical and I honestly couldn't tell any difference in accuracy with any of them. That being said, I still think I like the old "shoot 220 russian loaded rounds down an old 6ppc barrel" method. Take 'em out, clean them, turn them, and fireform one more time and they're ready for competition.
This method seems to make them grow a bit slower and make a bit less of a donut. But they don't shoot any better.....

 

[shinny]

Let me begin by saying I am no top notch shooter but I agree with goodgrouper.

Here's what I have done, and will do again, as soon as I can find some Bullseye Powder:

1.) I load the virgin cases with a very small amount of Bullseye powder & top it off with cream of wheat. Then plug the neck with wax or plumbers putty.

2.) Then Fire them through a FF barrel that was chambered with my reamer.

3.) When back at the bench I run my expanding mandrel through them, trim to length, and there ready to turn.

4.) Once turned and fired 1 or 2 times, with bullets, the cases are ready to go. They should shoot quite accurately from the get go.

IMHO I feel with this method I don't get the dreaded outside donut, brass is much more concentric and the necks are nice and straight.

Additionally, this will maintain the case length much better. This is important to me as I trim my brass very close to full chamber length (1.500). I must watch my length very closely but it helps prevent the ominous Carbon Ring.

 

[WoollyMonster]

Really?

Wooly,

I'm planning on fire-forming another 50 cases (6BR Lapua blue box) on Sunday in a VFS match at my club. I did the expand, trim, turn, chamfer, load, fire on the first 50 and they were accurate enuf for my purposes.

Dennis

Have you done that before? How did you score? I would be interested in knowing how you do.

I am trying to get my 6PPC up and running before Sep 21st for the Pine Valley match in Huntsville, TX. That match is 4 rounds, 10 shots each at mini clay birds (2 3/8") at 250 yards. Although I will try my best, I surely don't expect to win. I would assume that fire form loads would be nowhere near accurate enough for 250 yards, right?

Thanks for the info,

Woolly

 

[shinny]

Wooly,

Sent you a PM.

Shinny

 

[abintx]

For what it's worth

I am talking about making fire form loads for the 6PPC out of 220 Russian brass. I have talked to a few top competitors and read books by others (some Hall of Famer's). It seems that some shooters take the 220 Russian case and:

- Expand the neck to 6mm
- Run through an FL sizing die
- Expand again
- Then turn the necks down
- Load and fire form


Believers in this method say that it gives them a defined shoulder junction to turn to. Others simply:

- Expand
- Turn down necks
- Load and fire form

Of course all the other necessary brass prep is done as well. I have 200 pieces of Lapua 220 Russian cases that I am trying to decide how to fire form for my new 6PPC. There are winners in both camps.

Any thoughts?

Here's one method:

RELOADING STEPS

FOR THE 6PPC & 30BR & 6mmBeggs

NEW 220 Russian or 6mmBR cases:
1. Headspace all brass with no Bushing in Die. No lube required.
2. Remove spring from Bolt and seat case in chamber.
3. Adjust Die if needed.
4. Expand necks.
5. Check overall length of each case. Trim all to lowest number.
Rationale: to ensure consistent cut length during turning.
6. Turn necks.
7. Measure neck OD with a seated bullet at the pressure ring.
Re-turn if needed.
8. Deburr, Chamfer and 0000 Steel Wool case neck.
9. Clean inside of necks with a Q-tip, while spinning the case.
10. Don't touch Flash Hole leave it at .059".
11. Uniform primer pocket.
12. Deburr inside of primer flash hole.
13. Full Length Size with Bushing.
14. Prime.
15. Drop powder.
16. Seat bullet.
17. Check dimensions. For 6PPC .262" neck, .260" is goal.
For 30BR 330 neck; 328. For 6Beggs .269 neck; .267.
18. Light oil outside of entire case, ONCE, prior to fireforming.
19. Fireform twice.
20. Trim to length. For 6PPC [1.490"], 30BR [1.500"],
6mm Beggs [1.510"]

Fired cases:
1. Clean case necks with NevrDull.
2. Inspect cases. Discard split necks and others with defects.
3. Deprime with depriming die.
4. Measure case with Headspace gauge, then zero.
5. Full length size. Check with gauge. Adjust die if needed.
.001" is goal.
6. Measure case length. Trim all cases if over .005" variation
in Trim to Length.
7. Clean primer pocket.
8. Nylon brush inside of case neck.
9. Prime.
10. Drop powder.
11. Seat bullet. Pay attention to seating depth.
12. Check neck OD with seated bullet.

 

[Centerfire]

Woolly

I am not sure you know about another site that has this information in the Archived Articles under 6PPC.
It is www.accurateshooter.com or 6mmBR.com same site.
Go to the sire, look in the middle of Archived Articles, click
Look on left for 6PPC, scroll down, click
Go down to the 3 ways the 6PPC brass is made.
Sorry I don't know how to attach this.
I know this info is on this site in one form or another just don't know how to get it quickly.
Good luck.
Centerfire

PS I think this was written before Hornady offered the hydraulic die you can buy but their is a lead time. involved.

 

[Boyd Allen]

I take it that you don't have a fire forming barrel so I will suggest the more conventional approach. One issue can come up when you expand the necks to 6mm is that part of the .220 Russian shoulder will become neck (causing the cut at the back of the neck to be heavier, and beyond that, depending on how your barrel is headspaced, you may have to turn onto the shoulder with the angle of your neck turner's cutter, so that your bolt close will not require excessive force. For my rifle's barrels, this entails a cut of a depth that the edge can hardly be caught with a fingernail. As soon as I see the track on the shoulder that is the full width of the lead angle of the cutter, I reverse and start back down the neck. You can do this by eye, or trim your expanded necks to the longest length that will cut a little on all of them, and position the turning mandrel to act as a stop. I do it by eye. Are you experienced with turning necks? There are a few tips that can help with that. One more thing, if you have some powder that is about the right speed for your ppc, but not as hard to come by as some that are popular, use can use it to fire form with. and save the "good stuff". Recently, I used up a scrap of Benchmark, to preserve my supply of 133.

 

[WoollyMonster]

Thanks for the Great Info

Sounds like everyone is doing it pretty much the way that I am. One thing I did that may have been goofy was to set the 220 cases back with a big bushing (.267 I think) in the sizer die. This made sort of a transition area between the neck and shoulder. I only did 100 this way so I guess I will just see how they form up and shoot. Probably should have used an FL die (Redding on backorder) or taken the bushing out.

This is the first time in my life that I have turned for a tight chamber. I can't say that I like turning necks but with the Benchrite Case Lathe and two PMA neck turners that I sprung for it almost makes it fun. I have 3 other brands of neck turners and PMA blows them out of the water. Precise, easy to set up, easy to use, no perceptible back lash.

It has literally taken me months to get all the components and tools together to make these loads. I did get some pretty high end gear though. I bought my rifle from Mike Bryant of Bryant Custom. I have heard nothing but good things about Mike throughout the community and he has done a lot of mentoring for me so far.

My fire form barrel is on my rifle now. I am going to be ordering a couple more barrels in the near future and have Mike cut the chambers. I figure by the time I get the fire forming done, the rifle tuned, some decent practice and a match or two under my belt, it will be toast.

I may actually get to fire my rifle next week! Whooo Hoooo!!!

Thanks again,
Woolly

 

[abintx]

Did you buy your own reamer and are sending it to Mike when you need a barrel chambered?

I highly recommend you own your own. About $138 at Pacific Tool and Gauge.

 

[WoollyMonster]

Great Idea

Did you buy your own reamer and are sending it to Mike when you need a barrel chambered?

I highly recommend you own your own. About $138 at Pacific Tool and Gauge.

No I don't own one yet. Mike owns it and will cut follow on chambers with it. I will own one in the near future. Man, unless you are independently wealthy, it takes a little time to put all this stuff together.

Perhaps I can change my profession to machinist and get a lathe and mill too?

 

[abintx]

No I don't own one yet. Mike owns it and will cut follow on chambers with it. I will own one in the near future. Man, unless you are independently wealthy, it takes a little time to put all this stuff together.

Perhaps I can change my profession to machinist and get a lathe and mill too?

This is Not an inexpensive sport if you want to do things right. I added as I went along, as most of us do. My mistakes are sitting in a drawer. The price of tuition I suppose.