Disaster.....Barrel Galls in New Bat Action

The early DS actions had a brass ring about 3/8" in length at the front of the receiver. The ring came out of the one I had and I just left it out. The rifle shot well without the ring creating a thread relief about the same 3/8". Made it very easy to cut a thread on the barrel. His action shouldn't have any problem with having the front three threads relieved. I'd bet that when he screwed the barrel in it was tight and he forced it maybe without anti seize lubricant. If a barrel goes on tight, never try to turn it in with an action wrench and barrel vise. A few thousandths looser barrel thread doesn't hurt a thing and can prevent barrel seizing problems. As Harold Broughton told me years ago, the difference between a tight thread and a loose thread is clearance. The tight thread will have clearance, the loose thread will have more. It's still clearance. Once the barrel shoulders up, it doesn't make a bit of difference whether it's .001" clearance or .003" clearance, it's still clearance.
 
Clearance

Mike, I'm glad you said that. Most guys starting out think intuitively that closely fitted threads will benefit accuracy. They eventually learn the hard way about the galling risk and some even discover that there is zero accuracy benefit to tightly fitted threads. In a Remington action with factory threads that have not been re-cut, a tight fitting tenon may pull up unevenly to the recoil lug and cause a difficult to diagnose accuracy issue.
 
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Speedy taught me this rule of thumb on tenon diameter. Nominal thread dia. x .995=finished diameter. So 1.062"x .995=1.057" tenon.
 
Louis.J said:
Interesting what might be everyone else's thoughts on using that same formula?
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Although I was not aware of the formula, that's the diameter I turn a 1 1/6 tenon.

The tops of the thread fit nothing but air.

As a note, I just chambered a barrel for my new Bat Neuvo Action, which is a 1.062 18 tip. I have a master gage that I use for Stiller and Panda Actions. When I threaded the tenon to that gage, the Neuvo would not even start. I had to take it in another .005 to the side before it would even start.

I have a couple of barrels Laying around for Stiller and Kebly Pandas, and the Bat will not screw onto any of them.
 
jackie schmidt said:
Although I was not aware of the formula, that's the diameter I turn a 1 1/6 tenon.

The tops of the thread fit nothing but air.

As a note, I just chambered a barrel for my new Bat Neuvo Action, which is a 1.062 18 tip. I have a master gage that I use for Stiller and Panda Actions. When I threaded the tenon to that gage, the Neuvo would not even start. I had to take it in another .005 to the side before it would even start.

I have a couple of barrels Laying around for Stiller and Kebly Pandas, and the Bat will not screw onto any of them.
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That has been exactly my experience.
 
I jus rebarrelled 2 Surgeon XL actions in .300 Norma Mag and the takeoff barrels were 1.125" dia. They screwed off easily. Spec on them is 1 1/8"-16.
 
Recoil lug to barrel fit

Just a question, if you all are cutting the tenon down to 1.055, are you also cutting the seating surface for the recoil lug to the same diameter, or are you fitting that dimension tighter?
It seems that a loose recoil lug could lead to inconsistent bedding.
 
jackie schmidt said:
Although I was not aware of the formula, that's the diameter I turn a 1 1/6 tenon.

The tops of the thread fit nothing but air.

As a note, I just chambered a barrel for my new Bat Neuvo Action, which is a 1.062 18 tip. I have a master gage that I use for Stiller and Panda Actions. When I threaded the tenon to that gage, the Neuvo would not even start. I had to take it in another .005 to the side before it would even start.

I have a couple of barrels Laying around for Stiller and Kebly Pandas, and the Bat will not screw onto any of them.
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I'd never heard of that formula either, but I've always just taken .005" off the major diameter of the thread on barrel thread sizes. 1.125, I'll cut 1.120", 1.062 goes 1.057", 1" goes .995". Thats always worked for me.
 
rain164845 said:
Just a question, if you all are cutting the tenon down to 1.055, are you also cutting the seating surface for the recoil lug to the same diameter, or are you fitting that dimension tighter?
It seems that a loose recoil lug could lead to inconsistent bedding.
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I believe you are correct. I prefer the lug journal to be a very close fit.
 
alinwa said:
I can't find it here in US, I agree best ever.
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McMaster-Carr. They have the Lead style. I wonder if the moly type, which is metal free might be better, as it's for Stainless specifically.
 
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We do not use the lead based anti-seize because of it's toxicity in a marine environment.

I have a can on hand, with a bio sheet listing all of the places that you can't use it.

How many of you are old enough to remember White Lead. Best anti-gall compound ever. I think it's against the law to even own it now.

Through the years, I probably ingested a pound of that stuff.
 
For trial fitting parts, I'm not sure that using a good cutting isn't better than anti seize. JMO, and as usual, it's not what you read about on the internets. I don't see how adding metal particles to the thread is going help much, particularly when a small metal particle may be what caused the gall in the first place. Either way, it's never a good thing when you feel a tiny little speck of something in a thread and then it gets tight. In fact, it's a sickening feeling. Key is, don't ever force things. plenty of lube and work it back and forth with light finger pressure, whenever possible. Usually, how much force you use comes back to help or hurt you at getting the two separated.

For anti-seize, I've been using the white loc tite anti seize of late. It works very well and is a lot less messy. There are certainly places where metal containing anti seize is superior but in our applications here, the metal free seems to be the better choice. The main benefit of metal is in high heat environments where, after the lubricant has cooked away, the parts remain coated by the aluminum or other metal particles. Obviously, we aren't dealing with that kind of heat nor neglect. I simply recommend looking into the white non metal containing anti seize products for our use in the gun world, and deciding for yourself which you prefer after doing the research.

I hate that silver stuff that gets on you just by looking at it across the shop. It does have it's place though.
 
Non-Stainless require lub?

I know this thread is about stainless on stainless, but what is the prevailing opinion about non-stainless on stainless, and on non-stainless on non-stainless as far as using lube?
 
tbacala said:
I know this thread is about stainless on stainless, but what is the prevailing opinion about non-stainless on stainless, and on non-stainless on non-stainless as far as using lube?
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IME stainless on non-stainless (at least SS on Chrome Moly) is not prone to galling nor to the "stickiness" inherent to SS/SS

A certain action maker sold that concept, CM receiver, SS bbl and bolt, successfully for many yrs. I'm a believer.
 
An anti-galling product C5-A is a copper and graphite impregnated thread lube is one of the better items to use on stainless to stainless threaded fitting.

The probable problem with BAT is their thread fit standard....a bit undersize from the C2A/B (UNC/UNF) we are accustomed to.

.
 
JerrySharrett said:
An anti-galling product C5-A is a copper and graphite impregnated thread lube is one of the better items to use on stainless to stainless threaded fitting.

The probable problem with BAT is their thread fit standard....a bit undersize from the C2A/B (UNC/UNF) we are accustomed to.

.
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The probable problem is people fit their threads too tight.
I've done it twice. Since I went to a slightly looser fit no problems with just cutting oil on them.
If it feels like a close fit it's too close. Take another couple of thou off.
 
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