Direct chamber turning

L

Louis Boyd

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Has anyone here cut a chamber and throat with a lathe using a single point cutter (boring bar) instead of using a reamer for a short and relatively large bore cartridge?

What are the the difficulties in doing that?
 
No, but I'm sure I read in one of those odl timey gunsmithing books how to make a .22 rimfire chambering reamer from a drill bit.

Both might suffer a tad in the precision department, I suspect.
 
CNC would be able to, but

Has anyone here cut a chamber and throat with a lathe using a single point cutter (boring bar) instead of using a reamer for a short and relatively large bore cartridge?

What are the the difficulties in doing that?
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Otherwise forget it. Everything.

Shoot better
Peter
 
boring

It works to do this to "rough out a chamber " It would be difficult to finish a chamber by this method.

Chris
 
Find the book,,

Find the book,,Gunsmithing Projects,,,I think by Wolffe Publishing. A gunsmith friend has a copy and I borrow it about once every 2 years. Very interesting article on boring a chamber and all the setup you do in preparation. Thought about it,and then decided a new reamer isn't THAT expensive after all.:D
 
Has anyone here cut a chamber and throat with a lathe using a single point cutter (boring bar) instead of using a reamer for a short and relatively large bore cartridge?

What are the the difficulties in doing that?

It has been done a few times. But, even with a solid carbide bar (minimum deflection since sintered carbide doesn't deflect) and a CNC lathe it is almost impossible to maintain consistent dimensions. Works fine for straight walled, short pistol cases though.
 
cutting chamber

Hi Louis,

Yes, it most certainly can be done---if your chamber is large enough in diameter to use a suitable toolbit or boreing bar.
As a toolmaker that has worked in the Powder Metal industry, I have cut a fair amount of intricate core rod,plungers and dies on good old manual lathes---you DO NOT need a CNC lathe---I have cut many profiles that are similar to chambers in all kinds of tool steel from 40 to 60 Rockwell C Scale.
We used optical comparators to check our work ---I mean we used optical comparators that you could take on and off your lathe---they fit on the lathe just like the carraige and you did not have to remove your workpiece until you were finished, just lift the comparator on, check your diameters, take the comparator off adjust/take another cut --whatever--until you were there.
Sometimes we would also pour a casting to double check angles etc.
PM work is CLOSE tolerance and every dimension is called out with the tolerance specified.
Yep, you bet it can be done and done very effectively if you have the proper equipment and again, you have enough room to use a suitable tool.
You would not believe just how easy it is---if you have any lathe experience at all!!


Rich
 
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There are some very good boring bars available to do this now. The best thing about doing chambers this way is that once the barrel is done, replace it with a bit of bar stock and then just a little off the x and y axis and you have the perfect sizing die. I do suggest that the throat be done with a throating reamer.
In the early part i practised on a centre lathe with a taper turning attachment to do the body taper, then the compound to do the shoulder. In a CNC this process is down to seconds and is absolutely perfect and identical barrel to barrel or die to die. From the datum line, head space can be held to very close tolerances.
I know that a few have done chambers with EDMs, but i have a question as to how the axial alignment is done to the requirements we have in BR.

Tony Z.
 
No problem with either a conventional ram or a cnc ram EDM .
A chamber would be a pretty simple burn---there not that deep and flushing would not be a problem---number of ways to do it in a edm--the cnc ram would be faster but both would give you the same result in the end.
There are a number of ways to hold the barrel and depending on how many chambers I was doing would determine what setup I would use.
I would mount the barrel on the head and put the electrode on the table---I have burnt 36" long core rods this way---both ID and OD profiles ---tolerances of .0002 in both ID,OD and straightness over 12"---would that be close enough for the benchrest shooter??

Also, in a cnc ram you could have the barrel on the table and do the burn from the side---lots of ways depending upon your equipment.

Rich
 
Give me a reamer, anytime

Why to make things unnecessary complicated, when a reamer will do the same if not better and without any hassle?

Shoot better
Peter
 
Chambers/dies done by EDM

When in machining class at the community college I EDMed a few chambers and many sets of dies. I had access to free carbon to make my die burner, free dilectric fluid, free CNC equipment and a semester to get the job done. The chambers were pristine and well centered. The cost of the equipment and time it took was cost prohibitive for doing either operation on a comercial basis. Dave Kiff can make me a lot of $138.00 piloted reamers for the cost of one EDMed chamber.

Rustystud
 
Every rifle I've ever built has been chambered in a CNC and done with single point tooling. The longest I've ever done was a 300 WBY throated for 240's. I'll say that holding tolerance was difficult in the throat area when the end of the throat was 3+" deep in the hole, , but was as close to nominal as any reamed job I have ever seen. I would not want to try doing a 270, but, a 6br is a slam dunk.

I can't immagine doing it without a CNC lathe. The advantages that outweigh the setup time and "unnecessary" effort as some would say, is that you can make dies that actually fit your cases. And, when you decide you don't like them, you can make more. The chamber itself is not all that different from a reamed chamber. IF you decide to make small changes, you can do that without paying again for a reamer. Is this practical for gunsmith work, no. Would it work in a production environment such as Remington or Winchester where they make more than one gun at a time, certainly.

Difficulties... I'd say, don't waste your time unless you use coolant through tooling and don't waste your time with a commercially produced carbide bar that's coolant through. The coolant holes are WAY too small and won't do squat with the chips you need to move. With my own tooling and nice big coolant holes, the chips from a chamber form as something that looks like a "Chore-Boy" in the tail stock of the lathe. I find that stringing chips that flow down the bore and out are preferred to chips that break up and get jammed around the tool.

An NC Mill to make the toolholder is a nice luxury for making your own indexable tools. I make the pockets with an NC mill, tap and then harden. I prefer steel to carbide for the toolholder itself. I harden mine to 60-62 rc. I avoid straight portions on my tooling to reduce resonance in the tool itself, and hold chatter to a minimum. Most of my tools run without making any audible sound at .007-.010 depth and .0005-.002 feed/rev.

Indexable 80Deg inserts are available that use a #1-72 screw and will bore down to a 6mm throat size if you're careful about the holder design. For my 30cal work I use 120 Deg inserts with a .007 nose r. I find in the barrel steel, I've not had as good of luck with a tool holding up for an entire chamber when using the .002 nose radius, thus I use 7. When you're fussy about the dimensions, loosing .0005 off a tool edge is not acceptable.

The smallest I've ever done is in 17 cal but that was dies only. They were in A2 and L6. Those I did with a Bokum bar. They're too small for indexable tooling.

Where there's a will there's a way. However, for competitive use, given what I've learned in my time at this, I would say that without an NC lathe, this is not worh your time. Under no circumstance should it be considered cheaper to single point than to ream, unless your'e doing hundreds of chambers, and even then, I'd have to study costs a while.
 
I'm surprised no one has posted this:

Louis,

James Parfet wrote an article for the Rifle magazine #28, July/August 1973, on boring chambers. The article was reprinted in Gunsmithing Tips & Projects from Wolfe Publishing, page 283. If you don't have a copy of the book, you should. It's full of good stuff.

In the article, the body taper is set with the taper attachment, and the shoulder angle is set on the compound. James Parfet set up dial indicators on both to help in re-zeroing after each cut. He says he's even bored necks & throats in two barrels, and it works OK in 30 cal & bigger. Overall, I'd think a neck & throat reamer would be easier.

Wasn't there a company boring their sizing dies?

Regards, Ron
 
I've done chambers in barrels and in dies with my CNClathe. It works perfectly and one of the super advantages is that any dimension can be tweaked by modifying the program or tool offset. As mentioned above, probably the biggest problem here is getting a suitable boring bar. Off the shelf stuff doesn't often perform up to par and bars are most oftem modified or made from scratch.
If you have a CNC lathe or access to one, go for it.
One more thing..........the programs never wear out or get dull like reamers do.
 
I think that Hornady uses CNC to do the internals of their "custom" dies. Of course, this only requires body, shoulder and neck, no freebore or leade.
 
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