Custom Action, Oversize threads

S

SGJennings

New member
So, what would you think of a custom action that showed up with:

1. Threads that are 0.010" over their specs. They're correct, they're just over-sized.

2. Recoil lug correspondingly 0.010 overbored, with a serial number matching the action, but not "flat".

3. Firing pin tip hanging in the hole to the point that the action wouldn't open without unusual force. The cleared up after my smith polished th epin tip.

4. Otherwise, the action appears straight and true.

Greg J.

EDIT: I originally said .100 over. It's not. It's .010 over. But, it's *not* the advertised size. Why do *you* think it would come from the custom maker that way? Was the original dorked up then the threads corrected? If it has to have its own unique recoil lug, don't you think it'd be true?
 
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Custom means "one of a kind" right??:D

Return to sender. . .
 
Some One Could Have "fixed" It.

I had a Farley that habitually shot rather mediocre, and the firing pin strike was always off center enough to be really noticeable.

So, I made a lathe fixture, and "trued", it, just like a Remington. I had to take the threads a full .020 oversize before they were dead true with the bolt raceway.

The firing pin strike was then dead on, and the action did seem to perform better.

Maybe this is what someone had to do with the action you have..........jackie
 
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I think that is basically what happened, but I believe it happened at the action's OEM.

The information that I have is that it was bought as a barreled action. I bought the action. It has never been fired.

The barrel and the recoil lug were both engraved with the action's serial number.

Other actions from this OEM, that are of normal size, do not have the serial number on the recoil lug.
 
That's Probably It

As long as it is correct, besides being a little off center, there is no harm.

The time this could become a problem would be if the action was purchased from a manufacturer that is known for holding tolerances to the degree to which you can simply order a barrel, screw it on, and shoot. There are only a few out there that will do this.

The firing pin issue is a little troubling, if for no other reason in that theylet it get out thye door in that condition.. That certainly got by QC. ......jackie
 
Caution...!

Just to share a similar story..a friend purchased his 3rd custom action of the same model/size...just different port configuration...he sent the new action and a barrel from one of his other (name brand) custom action to a gunsmith that was recommended by the custom stock maker that was supplying the new 1000 yard stock...Upon recieving the stock, barrel, and action...the gunsmith contacted my friend to tell him that the barrel he sent with the action "would not thread onto the action" because the threads were different..."class A threads versus class B threads"..:confused:..and that the barrel would have to be set back and rechambered and recrowned...cost $250 (additional) above the bedding of the new stock...Well my friend called me and asked how this could be.?..he wanted to beable to switch barrels between all of his 3 like actions...but now he had one action that was limited to the one barrel..:cool:
I stated that seemed very wrong...that my experience with the "name brand custom action" was consistant and barrels would commonly thread on any of their like actions...well to the "meat" of this story...when the rechambered/recrowned barrel...action and stock arrived...I suggested he try to thread some of his many other barrels onto the new action...he did and to his surprise..:eek:...all of his extra barrels would thread onto the newest action and headspace perfectly...

Moral of this story...the gunsmith was "blowin smoke" up this novice shooters a**..by using some machine shop "jargin" to justify the extra cost...
There are some very unscrupulous gunsmiths out there...but this one has "NO ETHICS" and no more business from my friend...

So beware...:mad:...verify everthing that sounds "wrong" don't believe everything you hear...
 
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Hey, I love our custom action mfgrs..... and I'm the last person to say "send it back" in the case of many items like barrels etc. But this is IMO completely unacceptable.

"Fix it?"

"Live with it"

Accept that it's just "a little off center/true???"

I think not!

al
 
have you?

spoken to the manufacturer.
I,m with Al, it aint cosha what you pay for you should get but give the maker a fair go.Did the original owner get sum sweet deal??Could be lots of angles on this story??
jim
 
Threads

eww,
I hope the barrel was a "A" thread and receiver "b" :) as these are the unified designations for external (A) and internal (B), though barrel threads don't tend to be of the unified size they do follow the form. Did you personally see that the new barrel fit the new action before the rechamber? The smith could have been right about it not fitting, things happen barrel could have been at fault. Or it was a sweet $250 for no work...


sounds strange..
 
Fusion...I was brought in on this situation after the fact...but the details are..the 6mmBR barrel that was chambered by Lester Bruno to fit a BAT model "M" action LBRP..along with a 22BR barrel and a 6.6x284 all three barrels fitted to one action by Lester...
When the new BAT "M" LBRPRE arrived it was sent along with the 6BR barrel (un-tested for fit into the new action) to a gunsmith that was recommended to fit/bed the new action into a Shehane tracker 1000 fiberglass stock...that gunsmith contacted my friend with the issue of the 6BR barrel not fitting into the new BAT "M" action...so my friend agreed and the barrel was re-chambered and crowned...it was obvious...that it was NOT Lester Brunos' threads and chamber..!...(very rough threads on the re-chamber)..when it returned with the Shehane stock..
When my friend brought this to my attention I suggested that he try all of the barrels from all of his other two BAT model "M" actions..(all chambered by L. Bruno)...into the new 3rd action..ALL OF THE BARRELS WENT INTO THE 3rd ACTION perfectly...get the picture..
I have my doubts that L. Bruno threaded ONE barrel out of the 6 barrels my friend has for his BAT "M" actions DIFFERENTLY...do you..?????
 
It could be that that one barrel wouldn't fit into the action as all it takes for a barrel to go from not fitting to being able to screw in all the way can be a thousandth of an inch. I keep records on the threads of just about all the custom actions that I install a barrel and use a thread mike to mike the threads on the barrels after they have been fit to the action. Thread mike diameters for the barrels will vary on any of the actions that I've barreled regardless of make of action. Most are pretty close, but can vary a few thousanths one way or the other. The difference between a tight thread and a looser thread is that looser thread will have more clearance when its tighten up against the shoulder. They both have clearance, the looser one has more. The headspace measurement can vary from one action to the next, but on most of the actions made on CNC equipment these measurements are pretty well on the money.

If you have five barrels that thread mike 1.025" and one that mikes 1.026", they may all six screw onto the same action with no problem. The barrels that measured 1.025" would be slightly looser than the one that measured 1.026". But, it could be that the one that measured 1.026" wouldn't even start into the action and the last thing you want to do would be to force it. The Bat M action has larger threads than that, but it would be the same principle.

The second gunsmith whoever he was should have been able to pick up the threads and deepen the threads a little, but that may also be where the problem was with the looks of the threads. He may not have done a good job picking them up or if he cut them off and rethreaded, he may not have done a good job. The simple solution to that is not to use him anymore.
 
Unacceptable situation

alinwa said:
Hey, I love our custom action mfgrs..... and I'm the last person to say "send it back" in the case of many items like barrels etc. But this is IMO completely unacceptable.

"Fix it?"

"Live with it"

Accept that it's just "a little off center/true???"

I think not!

al
Click to expand...


al,
I agree with you. If I spend hard earned money for a product that is above the standard and priced accordingly, I expect it to be as described. If it doesn't meet specs., form or function, it goes back to the manufacturer.

Lou Baccino
 
OK guys, it was my gun

This thread has kind of changed directions to reference my new gun. I'm the culprit, so I feel I must enter some sort of response......

I realize you don't use this forum to bash gun builders or gunsmiths, so I'll keep it anonymous. This is about MY gun, so here are the EXACT FACTS. You make up your own mind and feel free to give me your own opinions:

I sent a new BAT M LBDP action to a builder to have a gun built, stock, bedding, everything. I also sent a 6mm barrel that Bruno chambered for a different gun so there would be a barrel for them to use. It was off a BAT M RBRP action from one of my other guns. I've taken the barrel on/off many times switchbarrelling on the other gun. Never had any thread problems.

So when the gunsmith received my action and barrel, he called me and asked if the barrel came off that specific action that he had received, BAT M LBDP. I told him no. It came off a BAT M RBRP action, but it should work because they have the same threads. He said it would not screw on. He said he would have to rechamber the barrel to correct the thread problem and that the barrel would be about 1.5" shorter. I told him OK.

I called him a few weeks later to check the status. He stated that the gun was finished, the barrel was now about 24", but it should shoot good because may people were shooting 24" 6mmbr's...... He said it had been rechambered and recrowned. Sounded good to me.

After I got the new gun, I checked my other barrels that came off my other BAT M RBRP action and they all fit the new action PERFECTLY. I couldn't understand why the 6mm barrel wouldn't fit. It was threaded and chambered by Bruno at the exact time the other barrels were. All of these barrels were put on / and taken off my original BAT M RBRP action several times.

So I decided to measure the 6mm barrel that had supposedly been rechambered. When I had sent the barrel to the gunsmith, it was exactly 26" long, measured from where it bumps against the action to the end of the muzzle. There is no doubt about this measurement. When I measured the same barrel after it was supposedly rechambered and recrowned, it was exactly 25 7/8". So the recrowning and rechambering apparently cut off 1/8".

I can attribute the 1/8" to the recrowning, but how was it rechambered? Especially when I was told that the threads were all wrong and it would NOT fit on the new action.

I'm not a gunsmith and I don't know all the tricks. I'm just very confused about all of this and would like to know what really happened.

Your comments would be very appreciated.
 
tcombest

If you haven’t fired any rounds through that barrel since the “rechambering”, please have the chamber borescoped. That will instantly reveal any chamber modifications such as rechambering.

HPC
 
Sounds to me as if we've got a serious information disconnect...... furthermore it sounds to me as if the "bad action(S)" are in fact perfectly matched as all BAT's should be???

And FURTHERMORE, let this be a lesson to self to be careful with opinions as information has a way of "evolving" as time goes on! :rolleyes:

Only a competent gunsmith with all parts in hand can sort this out, it is my opinion that this isn't the sort of mixup to be settled on an internet chatboard.......

alinwa out

:)
 
For a barrel that fit a Bat with a barrel thread about 1.06" long, the barrel would be at least an inch shorter if the threads were cut off, rethreaded and rechambered. With the barrel only being an 1/8" shorter than when you sent it, the threads could not have been cut off, rethreaded and rechambered. It could have been set back a thread which takes .062 set back on a 16 tpi thread or two threads which takes .125" set back on a 16 tpi thread, the threads deepened a few thousandths to allow the barrel to thread onto the action. If you paid for having the threads cut off, rethreaded and rechambered, then you paid for work that wasn't done. If he set back the barrel a thread or two, picked up the threads and rechambered, depending upon what you were charged with on his invoice, you may or may not have gotten your money's worth.
 
Just want to make clear that the original post, mine, was about the custom action. It has nothing to do with my smith. He's gone well out of his way to help me in this.

I'm not going to mention the custom action maker on the forum.

There were three issues:

1. Threads are 10 thou over the published size and over the size of several other actions my smith has recently had in house.

2. The recoil lug was a half thou off "flat".

3. The action wouldn't open when I bought it due to the firing pin being a skosh too large for the pin hole.

Other than that, the action looks good. The rifle is not yet finished, so I don't yet know "the proof of the pudding".

I bought this action second hand. It was unfired. The original purchaser bought it as a barreled action. There was no indication on the action itself that the action was 10 thou over spec. The original purchaser was unaware of the situation.

To summarize my gripe, I feel that any one of these things is not such a big deal but that all three got past QC is unforgivable. Especially since it's pretty clear that someone dorked the original threading and corrected it 10 thou over.

I won't be doing any business with the company. Too many good custom actions readily available to accept that kind of QC.
 
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Call the custom maker and see if they have an explanation or even a record of why that receiver was made that way.
 
If you bought the action as a barrelled action how do you know that the first gunsmith didn't do some accurizing on the action and true the threads himself? It's quite common. Especially with the "truing" tooling available from PTG and Manson. The tap cuts the thread .010 oversize and the set comes with a lug reamer to ream the hole in the recoil lug a corresponding .010 oversize. Sounds like to me that's what happened. I don't know if all the work was necessary or not but sounds like you got it anyway.
 
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