Could there possibly BE a worse response???

Bill Ohio said:
This has to be...saddest...pathetic...intellectually dishonest...sickeningly emotionally overwrought...(etc., ad nauseum)
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Bill Wynne is quoting a sentiment attributed to Abraham Lincoln after he suspended habeus corpus. What Lincoln did was clearly treason. It was a reason to take up arms and revolt. It was justification for assassination.

Yet, 150 years later, we surely all realize that he was right.

Similarly, we're now faced with a situation where great principles are under fire from newly powerful opponents. I feel sure we'll ultimately win this war but if it's necessary to occasionally make a strategic retreat to do so, I'm not averse to that. It's possible to find common ground with anti-gunners. After all, their hearts are in the right places; they want fewer innocents to die. We can all get behind that idea. Their problem is that they just don't understand enough history to know that most of the ways of accomplishing the goals they seek would cause excessive collateral damage to our civil rights.

So take an anti-gunner to the range and help them see how much fun it can be. Stress that we're all on the same side when it comes to wanting children to be safe and that we're open to discussing ideas for achieving that goal.

Actually talk to those folks and you'll often find plenty to agree about.

If we're lucky, we may be able to get through this with minimal procedural changes to the process of firearms acquisition and no real abrogation of our civil rights under the 2nd Amendment. If we're not willing to engage in some sincere conversation with the antis, we may effectively lose the 2nd completely.

In the past, we've carefully, over many years, shown that gun control is a bad idea. We basically won the war. This tragedy has boosted the opposition at a time when we've gotten lazy about protecting our rights. The best that most of us can muster is sloganeering, throwing bumper sticker quotes at the opposition. That's not going to work this time.

I read Bill's comments as an acknowledgement that this fight is going to be different and difficult, not as waving a white flag. Over-reacting to those among our ranks who are willing to moderate their views in light of political reality is counterproductive. We're all on the same side so how about we work together instead of condemning other shooters for being insufficiently committed to the cause? I think we'll all come out better on the far side if we do.
 
may i suggest you go read the rest of bills...anti gun comments.....

mike in co
benenglish said:
Bill Wynne is quoting a sentiment attributed to Abraham Lincoln after he suspended habeus corpus. What Lincoln did was clearly treason. It was a reason to take up arms and revolt. It was justification for assassination.

Yet, 150 years later, we surely all realize that he was right.

Similarly, we're now faced with a situation where great principles are under fire from newly powerful opponents. I feel sure we'll ultimately win this war but if it's necessary to occasionally make a strategic retreat to do so, I'm not averse to that. It's possible to find common ground with anti-gunners. After all, their hearts are in the right places; they want fewer innocents to die. We can all get behind that idea. Their problem is that they just don't understand enough history to know that most of the ways of accomplishing the goals they seek would cause excessive collateral damage to our civil rights.

So take an anti-gunner to the range and help them see how much fun it can be. Stress that we're all on the same side when it comes to wanting children to be safe and that we're open to discussing ideas for achieving that goal.

Actually talk to those folks and you'll often find plenty to agree about.

If we're lucky, we may be able to get through this with minimal procedural changes to the process of firearms acquisition and no real abrogation of our civil rights under the 2nd Amendment. If we're not willing to engage in some sincere conversation with the antis, we may effectively lose the 2nd completely.

In the past, we've carefully, over many years, shown that gun control is a bad idea. We basically won the war. This tragedy has boosted the opposition at a time when we've gotten lazy about protecting our rights. The best that most of us can muster is sloganeering, throwing bumper sticker quotes at the opposition. That's not going to work this time.

I read Bill's comments as an acknowledgement that this fight is going to be different and difficult, not as waving a white flag. Over-reacting to those among our ranks who are willing to moderate their views in light of political reality is counterproductive. We're all on the same side so how about we work together instead of condemning other shooters for being insufficiently committed to the cause? I think we'll all come out better on the far side if we do.
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Another point I feel needs to be made, "this" is NOT an "American problem" nor is it a "new" problem.

It's people doing to other people what they've been doing since Cain and Abel.

The difference is in the media portrayal and coverage, which is driven by people's attention spans! "The Media" dishes out what the public wants to buy, always has, always will. Look at what "the people" want....... look at he sort of TV shows that people watch (incidentally, I keep tabs on British TV...... which, while "different," is certainly not geared toward a higher intelligence! In Britain they actively PANDER to ignorance, glorify it)

I'm back to the people, NOT THE KIDS, the people.... we the people gotta' find our bigboy pants and put 'em on.

al
 
As Alinwa would say, "Lissen".

I've talked with Bill Wynne enough to know that he doesn't deserve extreme response to what he writes here. He's a pretty good feller..although he does live in Texas.
 
Wilbur said:
As Alinwa would say, "Lissen".

I've talked with Bill Wynne enough to know that he doesn't deserve extreme response to what he writes here. He's a pretty good feller..although he does live in Texas.
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Thanks Wilbur. Coming from you, that is a complement that I cherish.

I would welcome having a cup of coffee with any of you who have posted on this forum. We are not that different in our thoughts as our writings seem to indicate. I believe that us gun owners need to reason together. Our thoughts about this last tragedy and the threats against the second adminiment are probably not that far apart. If we in the "gun community" can reason together, we would have a better chance to reason with the rest of our countrymen.

I apologize to anyone who I have offended. I have only expressed my thoughts just as you have.

Bill,
Texan by birth, American by the grace of God
 
Bill Wynne said:
I would welcome having a cup of coffee with any of you who have posted on this forum. We are not that different in our thoughts as our writings seem to indicate. I believe that us gun owners need to reason together.
Bill,
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Bill, I'd even buy the coffee.
 
Bill

Nothing you said offended me. I don't get offended very easy, no problem. You are just as entitled to your opinion as i am. I don't agree with a lot of things people say, and i imagine they say the same about me. Some skin is thicker than others................:cool:

Later
Dave

Bill Wynne said:
I apologize to anyone who I have offended. I have only expressed my thoughts just as you have.

Bill,
Texan by birth, American by the grace of God
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No offense here :)

And I don't completely disagree re 'change' it's just that we can change and grow without sacrificing core values. Without mutilating The Constitution.

BTW........ COFFEE........ LOL

Right thar is an example of change. Coffee, acros't the South as an acceptable social drink.

al
 
Never forget that the people pushing this stuff want to completely eliminate guns from society. Step by step. This would be a big step.
 
alinwa said:
Right thar is an example of change. Coffee, acros't the South as an acceptable social drink.

al
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Well, Burbon and branch water if you would rather. My part of Texas is considered in the southwest. You ought to come visit. It rarely rains out here. You can pour concrete almost any day.
 
Bill Wynne has the idea get in now to be part of the structuring of the reform or get what they come up with.its coming
 
It is coming if we all take that attitude. We all need to united and get busy. All this crap can be stopped if we stand up and and make some noise. Politicians remember what happened after
the Clinton Gun Ban. Let's remind those who forgot. Why didn't Obama try this crap in his first term? Simple.......he was afraid of the polictical consequences. Wake up and stop
being a wimp!
 
Geronimo Jim said:
It is coming if we all take that attitude. We all need to united and get busy. All this crap can be stopped if we stand up and and make some noise. Politicians remember what happened after
the Clinton Gun Ban. Let's remind those who forgot. Why didn't Obama try this crap in his first term? Simple.......he was afraid of the polictical consequences. Wake up and stop
being a wimp!
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Absolutely Jim! +1.


To the folks who are "willing to compromise":

By now, you should know that when a lib says "compromise", it really means "I want you to agree with me".
Well folks, we've already compromised many times. Too much in my opinion. As I read the Constitution, it clearly says that the right to bear arms shall not be infringed. To infringe means to encroach upon the law.http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/infringe. To encroach means to enter by gradual steps or by stealth into the possessions or rights of another http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/encroach . So the 2nd Amendment says you have the right to keep and bear arms. Any attempt to gradually take away that right by steps or stealth is against the law and should not be tolerated.

So, how many times have we allowed other folks to break the law in attempt to "compromise"? Plenty. Most states require you to jump through hoops to get your concealed license permit (which in and of itself shouldn't exist, your right is to keep and BEAR arms so you shouldn't need a special permit for that). Some states tell you that you can't have your gun for two weeks. Some states tell you that you can't buy so many guns at once. Some states won't let you even own a handgun unless it registered. The Feds won't let you have a gun that fires more than one round per each pull of the trigger unless you jump through major hoops. And they won't let you own a centerfire rifle bigger than .50 cal. They won't let you sell handguns out of state. They won't let you have rifles or shotguns with barrels shorter than certain lengths. ANd on and on and on..........
All of these new rules, by definition, are encroaching on the law that simply states you have a right to own and bear firearms. So we have "compromised" ourselves into this illegal situation. I, for one, say enough is enough. Giving up more rights to retain others is not the answer. Where will it end if we don't draw a line in the sand now? Do you really think that if you concede more of your freedoms now that they won't ask for more in the future? How many rights are you prepared to lose so that the left can convince the general public that they are safer? Think about that.
 
Bill Wynne said:
Well, Burbon and branch water if you would rather. My part of Texas is considered in the southwest. You ought to come visit. It rarely rains out here. You can pour concrete almost any day.
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Nope, I'm a coffee man from coffee country :)

It's just that when I was a kid the idea of any Southerner drinking a non-alchoholic beverage was anathema! ('course that's a yankee word but y'all can catch my drift...)
 
alinwa said:
Nope, I'm a coffee man from coffee country :)

It's just that when I was a kid the idea of any Southerner drinking a non-alchoholic beverage was anathema! ('course that's a yankee word but y'all can catch my drift...)
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Some of the best people you will ever meet live down here and a few of the worst. Just like in the great northwest. From my observations, we are more alike than we are different except some of you folks talk funny. One other thing, people in the northwest stand out in the rain with a big hat and no umbrela. Come down here, Al, and we will have coffee together. I like your style.
 
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