comments about the IBS proposed 10-ring change

JerrySharrett

JerrySharrett

Senile Member
At the 2012 IBS nationals at Weikert a test target was used in the warmups. The proposed target has a reduced thickness 10-ring. My comment to this proposal is that it will be harder to see especially for folks like myself who have poor vision. The idea for this change is to make scoring easier. I propose the shooter comes first not the scorers.

Also the IBS is looking for a new target paper source. Any ideas contact Dale Boop. I have one source, the same paper the ARA/PSL rimfire uses. It is white, not buff colored, and it leaves a crisp bullet imprint.
 
Perhaps the Group IBS guys should talk to the Score IBS guys. The Score side went through the paper thing a couple of years ago and found a good source for paper/ tatrget. The Score Targets now are GOOOOD. Good enough, in my opinion. to go back to the scoring plug. I am not a fan ot the reticule for scoring.
 
I think it is to give the shooters a more fair measurement by not including the line if the group is touching the edge. I didn't have any problem seeing with my 66 year old eye's.
Brush
 
Jerry - the IBS made arrangements for all short range (group and score) and 600 yard targets. Orrville, reportedly, has a problem with getting the current paper, but that is unconfirmed.
 
Having shot the test targets several times this year I was apprehensive at first but found I do like them - particularly at 100 yards. I expect some of what I like is a more refined target view and aim point - I'm one of those top of the mothball guys. I believe the current line weights and design were from when we had 24 to 36 power scopes rather than the 45's and 50's common today. John, I take it, from your post, you didn't care for them? Am I reading that correctly?
Gary
 
JerrySharrett said:
Jeff, Dale Boop told me they can no longer get that paper?? Do the score and group have separate contracts with Orrville?
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Jerry, I spoke out of turn on this issue. I have not checked on the IBS Website to know if the news of the loss of that paper source is on there but I will now.
 
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Pete, just curious, why do you like the plug. I use a reticle at our score matches, it is fast, accurate, and and it does a great job.

One problem we have is shooterrs accepting that the reticle is the actual bullet size. It doesn't lie.
 
Hers some input from Camillus match this year. some of the guys liked the finer line on the 10 ring others not. I gues it's 50 50. Some older eyes have trouble others don't/ The paper is another issue. It still flakes off around the edges of a group, especially if the paper is alowed to sit some time after the groups have been fired.
I was going to suggest that IBS look at some card stock and give that a try for target ppaper.
Card stock is harder and will leave a clean hole. The current target paper is better but really not as good as the original paper stock from years past. Some of it may be due to paper stocks and mills closeing over the years.
So far all ive seen is an increase in target cost .
 
jackie schmidt said:
Pete, just curious, why do you like the plug. I use a reticle at our score matches, it is fast, accurate, and and it does a great job.

One problem we have is shooterrs accepting that the reticle is the actual bullet size. It doesn't lie.
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Jackie,

I have used and observed the use of a Plug to score a lot of Rimfire targets over the past coule of years and observed folks making calls on scoring using the reticle. A plug does not require anyone's judgement as to rather or not it is centered in the hole. In our Sports, all of us are expected to be referees and make judgements on the scores others have pending. From my experience, some folks do not use the reticle properly, me having read the instructions more then once . I doubt that most people have read the instructions that come with the reticle as I have seen a number of folks use the reticle incorrectly. Yes, there are protests in the scoring of Rimfire Targets and occasionally a Scorer's call on using the plug is overturned but I believe, in general, the plug is a more fair and accurate way to score targets.

Back when the target paper was so hard our bullets were blowing big holes in the paper, yes, we needed an alternative but with the paper we have had the past couple of years, in my opinion, the plug would have served us better. I don't have a 30 Cal. plug but would like to see a comparison on some reffed calls to see if I am correct. An opinion is only an opinion and without testing, we will not likely know the answer.
 
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In my limited time at score matches lately, I hardly ever hear the call for a referee to check a score, now that the reticle is used. The plug was fraught with problems.
 
Wayne Shaw said:
In my limited time at score matches lately, I hardly ever hear the call for a referee to check a score, now that the reticle is used. The plug was fraught with problems.
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Not in the days when we had good paper. The biggest problem with the reticle is the judgment call for centering the ring. I have seen a number of cases when people missed it completely.

It is true, there aren't many times when Reffs are called but there are too many times when the wrong decision is made, IMHO. One bad call is too many.
 
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Regardless of paper, if the scorer flattens out the bullet hole and lays the target down, that is the hole. Take a heavy fisted person jamming a plug into a hole, and you get what you get. You still have to look and determine where the edge is.
 
I like shooting the finner ring line. I also have an idea of making the center circle a ring of dots the same thickness of the current ring. the dots would be tangent to each other and would let more white paper showing and making it easier for the scorer and the same for the shooter.
Mike M
 
I like the reticle my position is based on when scoring group targets we use a reticle fixed to a vernier and center the hole. It is a judgement call but it is very accurate. I think the plug follows the angle of the bullet pulling the plug closer or further from the ring.
Mike M
 
I like the thin line........Can we put the record on the bottom? Since we are changing anyway? Can always see 100 and 150yd flags at 200 on sighter target. Windflags closer to record target then too.
 
If you drop the plug in straight and look at with a magnifying glass the plug won't lie. It either in or out
No doubt wether the operator of the reticle is seeing straight or not. sometimes its just enough, If there s white around it it out.
 
GerryM said:
If you drop the plug in straight and look at with a magnifying glass the plug won't lie. It either in or out
No doubt wether the operator of the reticle is seeing straight or not. sometimes its just enough, If there s white around it it out.
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If the bullet is being pushed by the wind it enters at an angle and when the plug is put into the hole it will follow the angle of the bullet hole and does not go straight in. The only way it will go in straight is if it is pushed into the target. That said in a green wing a bullet short of the bull gets pulled by the plug towards the bull while a bullet past the bull is pulled away from the bull. This is why the reticle was adopted.
 
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