Click value in grains

T

Travelor

New member
I am not looking to hear about safety issues or other sage advice.

I just would like to know the value in grains when the load is expressed as Culver type tools using clicks to regulate powder charges when using N133.
 
Are you asking how much 1 full number or 2 half clicks equates to in weight? I'm using one of Homer's original inserts and LT-32 dropped as such (I haven't shot 133):

148.0 = 26.9 grs
148.5 = 27.1
149.0 = 27.4
149.5 = 27.7
150.0 = 27.9
150.5 = 28.1
151.0 = 28.4
151.5 = 28.7
152.0 = 28.9
152.5 = 29.1

So each half clicks equals 0.2 - 0.3 grs. These were noted as the average of 10 throws at each setting. Not sure this answers your question or not.

-Lee
www.singleactions.com
 
Thanks, that is exactly the kind of answer I am looking for.

However I am hearing 53-54.5 clicks for a 6PPC and N133. Your powder dispenser does not seem to be scaled in that way.
 
I can't speak to the newer measures like Harrells or Jones. Mine is the original Culver insert made by my dad and Homer around 1989. The weights I listed were confirmed on two electronic scales so I'm sure of the metering. And again I'm pouring LT-32, not 133.

-Lee
www.singleactions.com
 
The weight of charges for a given "click" setting varies from measure to measure, and also by operating technique, which is why the system is of limited value for giving other shooters precise load data. IMO this should be done by weight. On the other hand, it is a very handy system for the individual shooter, where the same measure is in use, particularly since Lynwood Harrell started making measures that have six divisions between numbers.

Obviously the weight change per detent varies with the density of powders. On my measure, with the technique that I use, one detent is worth about .09 gr of 133 and about .1 for the LT powders.

I determine this by throwing ten charges into a scale pan at one setting, say 50, weighing it, and then at another setting say 55, and weighing that. Then I subtract one from the other and in this example divide the difference by 300 (five clicks time six divisions times ten charges) to get the value of one detent.

New users to the system may find the reference to clicks a bit confusing, but all they need to remember is a click is a change of one full number. With the my Harrell measure that is set up for sixths of a click, I note increasing charge weights as follows. 50, 50 1/6, 50 1/3, 50 1/2 etc.

Using my measure and 133, thanks to Gene Beggs, whose tunnel testing has identified the charge weight difference between nodes for a typical LV rifle shooting 133 as 1.2 grains, I know that if that is the move that I want to make that I will need to change my measures setting by around two clicks, and that if a two shot test, shot in really good conditions, has paper between the holes, that a one click change is likely to put me pretty close to an accuracy node center.
 
Travelor said:
Thanks, that is exactly the kind of answer I am looking for.

However I am hearing 53-54.5 clicks for a 6PPC and N133. Your powder dispenser does not seem to be scaled in that way.
Click to expand...

That sounds as if it were for a BRUNO powder measurer or other similar design. 53 clicks should put you around 29 grains
 
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Thanks Lee and Boyd

Now I am smarter and understand the "click" values I keep heard from the experienced shooters at the State Match Sunday. Not having one of these powder throwers and being a newby to this level of accuracy, I am learning every time I read this forum or speak with Dusty.

Trying to let Dusty settle in with his wife.

George
 
"Click values" don't mean anything. Run this to ground and you'll see what I mean by that.

Actual powder weight doesn't mean much either when you're talking about different BENCHREST rifles, but you asked for no sage advice.
 
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FBecigneul said:
Throw those clicks right out the window and take whoever publishes them with them. Weight and volume and clicks can change with the same measure, with the same powder on two different days with a big swing in humidity. I throw charges but I weigh first. Each day and from morning to afternoon. Actually from target to target.
Click to expand...

Good advise here.
52 clicks is not the same every hour through the day
 
I have a Sinclair, Harrell and a Jones powder measure with the Culver type insert. Set them to the same setting and they will all throw a different weight of powder. Which that means if someone is shooting 53.0 on their measure, you can't take and set your measure to 53.0 and expect to be throwing the same weight of powder as they are. I haven't checked two measures of the same make as I don't two of any one make. I've gone to a Hensler type insert when using a powder measure on a PPC as it has a finer adjustment that any Culver type measure. For the most part, I use a Chargemaster unless the match is going too fast to be comfortable using it. No doubt about it when it comes to stress at a match, throwing with a measure is a lot quicker than using a Chargemaster and results in less stress getting back to the line. When using a measure, I'll set to weight at the start of the day and check it periodically throughout the day to make sure it's what I want to throw. If I make a change as in going up on the measure, I'll weigh the charge to see what it's weighing. I do that by dumping five dumps in a scale pan and averaging it to see what the average weight is.
 
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Powder Weights

FBecigneul said:
Throw those clicks right out the window and take whoever publishes them with them. Weight and volume and clicks can change with the same measure, with the same powder on two different days with a big swing in humidity. I throw charges but I weigh first. Each day and from morning to afternoon. Actually from target to target.
Click to expand...


At the super shoot years ago...(97 ? ).....I did my own study with powder weight,clicks and volume......all different measurements of powder,using a humidity gauge.........As humidity changes....volume changes,weight changes.
That`s what tells a knowledgeable fella to open up in clicks...or throttle down...
bill larson
 
More useless info- powder performs by weight, not by volume and the Culver type measure is a volume measure. For example, take 4 lots of V133, by volume they will usually have different velocities, but, Chrono the 4 different lots by weight and they will perform much closer to the same velocity...not exactly but much closer.


.
 
Humidity changed so much during the day at my last match i had to move my measure over 1 whole number to throw the same weight
 
Travelor said:
Thanks, that is exactly the kind of answer I am looking for.

However I am hearing 53-54.5 clicks for a 6PPC and N133. Your powder dispenser does not seem to be scaled in that way.
Click to expand...

Here are numbers I got from my Culver years ago numbers are consistent with what you mention above.

40 21.6
41 22.2
42 22.7
43 23.3
44 23.8
45 24.4
46 24.9
47 25.5
48 26.0
49 26.6
50 27.1
51 27.6
52 28.2
53 28.7
54 29.3
55 29.8
56 30.3
57 30.9
58 31.4
59 32.0
60 32.5

Clicks N-133

Also as mentioned above they vary from unit to unit.
 
As others have said, the click numbers are relative. I have a Jones measure and plotted several powders on graph paper; clicks on the vertical and grains on the horizontal starting lower than case capacity and going way over. It comes out pretty much a straight line. You can also get a ratio like: 1 click = .5408 grains. But this only gets you into the ball-park. Usually, I throw ten charges in a pan and weigh it. This is what the powder-weight-volume ration is currently. As others have said, this changes with humidity and other variables. It is amazing to see how different a new lot of the same powder can be.
 
feffer said:
As others have said, the click numbers are relative. I have a Jones measure and plotted several powders on graph paper; clicks on the vertical and grains on the horizontal starting lower than case capacity and going way over. It comes out pretty much a straight line. You can also get a ratio like: 1 click = .5408 grains. But this only gets you into the ball-park. Usually, I throw ten charges in a pan and weigh it. This is what the powder-weight-volume ration is currently. As others have said, this changes with humidity and other variables. It is amazing to see how different a new lot of the same powder can be.
Click to expand...

It is amazing how much the bulk-density (weigh-per-unit of volume) some newly manufactured powders seem to have compared to some of the pull-downs. This is not much of an issue for users like the RCBS Chargmaster have.

If you will weigh your "drops" you will find a much greater variation in each sample than electronically metered "drops". Can this variation effect accuracy? Most likely if you are on the border of a tuned node.


.


.
 
As other have said pretty much a dream.
What was the temp humidity and elevation ??
What lot of powder was he shooting ??
Learn your gear.....
 
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