Cleaning a barrel after shooting 8208 Pull Down

S

skeetlee

Active member
I have been enjoying this newest lot of military powder that folks are calling 8208 in my 6ppc the past couple weeks. Boy does this stuff shoot well, but boy is it dirty!! I havent ever used JB in any of my bores and i am wondering of i should since i am shooting this powder now. I dont have anything against JB or anything like that i just havent ever boughten any. I did buy some of that remington 40X grit cleaner stuff, but i dont think i like it much. That stuff takes the shine right off my stainless cleaning rod, so i cant help but wonder what it is doing to my bore? Maybe nothing, but i dont have a bore scope so i really wouldn't know. like i say all i know is that it sure dulls up my stainless rod. Anyway i was wondering if you fellas think it would be a good idea to run a patch of JB with this 8208 pull down powder? I thought i had a pretty solid cleaning regiment, but i sold a little 22 cal barrel to a fella a few weeks back and when he looked at it with his bore scope there was some copper and a little carbon present. The barrel shot good for me, and i though i was getting it clean, but he has a scope so i have to believe he is correct. no reason not to anyway!
I have cleaned about 6 times now since i started shooting this 8208 Pull Down and my accuracy is still very very good so something must be ok, as far as my cleaning goes? What do you guys think, JB it or just clean as normal. I use brass brushes and butches by the way. thanks lee
 
Most guys, I know run Iosso down the barrel. After 100 or so. It supposed to get the carbon off the lands. little on a patch. And clean with usual cleaner to get it all out.
Brand new barrel. Hawkeye guy at Super Shoot says new barrel. But, you are not getting the carbon.
Then there is a carbon ring at the end of chamber. Another well known shooter. Uses a Nylon brush with Iosso. Scrubs the throat area. Then the barrel. Then cleans real well with usual cleaner to get it all out.
 
Lee. Here's another thing/thought.
If the barrel and you are shooting good. AND you like the results. You are good to go.
This is similar to, "what is the HOF guy doing......"
Some people say we clean too much......
I have used a bore scope on my barrels. I don't own one.......Might not want to......
Tim B.
 
I believe one extremely well known shooter, that used to use a nylon brush filled with Iosso, short stroking the first 8-10", to get rid of the hard carbon, has taken a liking to Carb Out, a liquid carbon remover. I believe that he has figured out that using a bronze brush, rather than nylon, as the directions specify, works better. In my short trial of the product, I found the same thing to be true. I also believe that if you have tough fouling, that the sooner that you remove it, after firing, the easier it will be to get out of the bore. If you don't believe this, just compare the effort it takes to clean the outside of case necks, right after they have been fired, compared to a week later.
 
One more thing, a Hall of Fame shooter that I know, who I believe shot a lot of 8208, used to clean with the old GM Top Engine Cleaner, patches and a bronze brush. Looking at his results, I would have to say that it worked. I have heard that TEC has been changed. Does anyone know if there is something that is being packaged under another name that is the old formula?
 
Lee, carbon can be an issue........

The modern non-amonia cleaners are fine carbon getters...

I perfer ProShots #4 ........... With a bore scope, no carbon rings..... It GETS 8208 carbon with ease...

Give some ProShots or Wipeout a try.... There are others.... No worries about abrasive "cleaning"... Even though these pastes are mild..

cale
 
Lee,

Very few on here has shot as much 8208 as I have the last five or six years. Scott Smallwood was nice enough (great guy) to loan me his borescope during the East/West shoot. What I found was the normal cleaning I was doing was getting everything out of the bore. If I varied it, I was finding carbon and copper build up. A lot of carbon in the first few inches as a matter of fact. As soon as I went back to my cleaning fluid and normal cleaning regime...all was well. I do JB at the end of the days shooting just to be safe. I believe I sent you some of that cleaner.

Hovis
 
I've shot some 8208 recently, not enough to comment on cleaning, but my question is, what does the term "8208 Pull Down" mean?
Dave T
 
When a powder is said to be pulled down, it means that it came from disassembled ammunition. As far as I am aware this has only been done, on a commercial scale, with surplus military ammunition. In the case of 8208, the pull down is a different powder than the newly manufactured XMR 8208.
 
Boyd. The New stuff is IMR 8208 XBR. Made in Australia.
I got it to shoot really good for VFS 6PPC. Temp. below 35 degrees.
I ran into a lot of guys, last year. Who tried it in BR Group. Didn't like it.
Loaded some up in .30-06 Garand. Looks promising.......
 
Zippy,

The "new" 8208 that is being discussed on several threads currently is NOT the same as the IMR 8208 XBR which has been around since late 2009 (longer if you count the test batch). The "new" lot of 8208 was pulled down from military surplus ammo and, as far as I know, has only been available for a few months.

By the way, do you have a thoery regarding why you have been able to get the XBR to shoot well in Score, while very few, if anyone, has been able to get it to shoot well in Group? Just curious.

Ryan
 
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Ryan
I guess i haven't heard anyone say that they get it to shoot in score but not groups. I have had one shilen barrel that really seemed to like the 8208xbr but nothing else since then. I am a nobody, and i probably shouldn't even comment on this but i set my score rifle loads up and tune them just as i would a ppc for group shooting, and by that i mean, my score rifle better agg and agg well or that load doesn't go to the line. Lets face it, A load that is in tune weather it be a ppc or a 30BR will cut the wind better than any load in any rifle that is out of tune. At least this is what i have found to be true. I want all my rifle to shoot the best they possibly can no matter what game i am playing. Lee

PS Kevin, I dont think i got any of that cleaner or solvent or whatever from you? I sure dont remember anyway if i did. Tell me how you clean kevin. Send me a text if you dont want to post here. thanks Lee
 
Lee,

Maybe I sent Jim some, just don't remember. Here is the formula:

1 can of OLD GM Top Engine Cleaner
25ml 28% Ammonium Hydroxide
7ml Marvel Mystery Oil
5ml Hydrogen Peroxide


2-4 wet patches (I look at them coming out and want to see the thick crud gone). Let soak a few minutes, 10-20 passes with bronze bore brush (wet). Rinse of brush with cleaner, then rinse in rubbing Alcohol. Wet patches til they get clean. Let bore soak, check for fouling (carbon or copper) with wet patch. Decide it's enough or keep going.

I have tried every cleaner made and this works the best for me. Takes care of carbon and copper very effectively. I've never had build up at the neck or throat using it. Kent H. gave me this formula and it was the basis for what became Butch's. Costs me about 60.00 or so a gallon to make. I have plenty of the Ammonium but like everyone else, starting to run low on GM TEC. I'm going to have to go hunting for it again as I only have enough for probably 4-5 gallons.

Hovis
 
RLHBUSL said:
Zippy,

The "new" 8208 that is being discussed on several threads currently is NOT the same as the IMR 8208 XBR which has been around since late 2009 (longer if you count the test batch). The "new" lot of 8208 was pulled down from military surplus ammo and, as far as I know, has only been available for a few months.

By the way, do you have a thoery regarding why you have been able to get the XBR to shoot well in Score, while very few, if anyone, has been able to get it to shoot well in Group? Just curious.

Ryan
Click to expand...

Ryan. Not sure about Winter Score working with IMR 8208 XBR. It seemed to work great.
I was talked out of shooting it by an HOF shooter. For NBRSA Group.
He said why handi-cap your self????
Meters great in powder dumpers.
Guys last year using it. They were getting 4 in 1 Groups. Nice tight small groups for the 4 and then one out of the group.
All very experienced shooters.....
 
RLHBUSL said:
Zippy,

The "new" 8208 that is being discussed on several threads currently is NOT the same as the IMR 8208 XBR which has been around since late 2009 (longer if you count the test batch). The "new" lot of 8208 was pulled down from military surplus ammo and, as far as I know, has only been available for a few months.

By the way, do you have a thoery regarding why you have been able to get the XBR to shoot well in Score, while very few, if anyone, has been able to get it to shoot well in Group? Just curious.

Ryan
Click to expand...

I was just trying to let everyone know. There is the Old powder and the new IMR 8208 XBR.
 
zippy06 said:
I was just trying to let everyone know. There is the Old powder and the new IMR 8208 XBR.
Click to expand...

Things get confusing with the new old powder and the old new powder both being discussed. Just trying to make sure we're all on the same page.

Ryan
 
goodgrouper said:
'Round these parts, we just call the new stuff XBR. If someone says something about 8208, we know they're talking about the old stuff since the new stuff AINT NOTHING LIKE THE OLD!
Click to expand...

GG.
Exactly the way I see it. And try to use this method. Some folks are stubborn about it.
 
Skeet

You given any thought to HBN coated projectiles?
I use them in my worn out PPC barrel with X-Terminator. Clean the barrel once a year after 4-500rds
Few patches of Hoppes and its fairly clean. Then some Patch Out to make sure theres no copper, done.
Same combo used in a 6BR 14 twist. Clean once at the end of the season.
I'm not implying you need to spare the rod as I do but....

N-133 and naked bullets give me copper in this well used barrel.
X-Term fouls enough to prevent copper with naked pills but it feels rough in the throat.
Add HBN to the X-Term and the patches run down the barrel like ice.
HBN seems to prevent the fouling of X-Term from building on itself while filling in the rough throat.
Once I stumbled onto this combo I never retested anything else except 8208XBR.
HBN cannot stop the plastic of XBR.
It may work for your pulldown tho.
Just my observations on a worn out barrel.
 
jo191145
Some time back, Skeetlee observed that XBR seems to do better if he doesn't let the fouling cool off for too long during a match, while waiting for a condition. I see that you seem to attribute some special characteristics to its fouling as well, with the reference to plastic. Have you found this to be the case with all the Australian manufactured powders that you might have tried? Also, do these powders seem to require different cleaning? I am curious about your choice of the word plastic.
Boyd
 
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