Choices.....

A

alank

Guest
Gentlemen,

I shoot for fun (& hunt), not not as often as I would like. I want to become more active at my local range (River Bend) and am planning an F Class rifle. I have a new Rem 700 donor short action and have tentatively selected 3 possible calibers, unless good advice steers me elsewhere. 6-284, 6mm Dasher, or 243 Ackley. I already have a 6mmBR that Mickey Coleman built for me on a Model 7 action, Douglas #3 contour 26" barrel & Banser Varminter stock. It is very consistent and, I think, accurate, some loads shooting in the .2's.
I'm looking for the new rifle to be a little heavier, longer tube (28-30") built on the 700 SA action.
Suggestions?

Thanks,

Alan.
 
I have a 6 dasher and love it. I chose the dasher because of the barrel life is better than some of the others, and because I heard great things about this cartridge. This is my first year shooting 1k, and I'm still learning bench techniques and wind dopeing skills, but I have seen the potential this rifle will shoot. And the future is bright. :cool:
 
Sure. Don't build a 6/284. Barrel life is real short, and you don't gain much over the smaller 6s. A 6-Ackley has the same capacity as a 6/284 .200 short (reamer held in .200 short), and these days most consider even a 6 Ackley too big. I get about 900 rounds per barrel on my 6 Ackley, shooting benchrest.

Far as I can tell, all the smaller 6s are about the same -- the 6 XC, the 6/6.5x47, etc. When I'm shooting my small 6 at 1000 yards -- about the size of these cases, I trade (infrequent) wins with a guy shooting a Dasher. So, even though the Dasher is smaller, it is probably just as effective -- and just as limiting.

Even better would be to talk to some of the F-class shooters in your area. Jim Hardy (Law Dwag) would be a good person to start with.
 
The Dasher (or a BRX) would be head-and-shoulders above the other two cartridges you listed for your stated purpose. I've built myself a couple of Dashers, and it's just a dandly little cartridge - very accurate, very efficient, very pleasant to shoot, with good barrel life. Fireform loads are plenty accurate enough for match use, so there's no need to waste barrel life or components just to form cases.

I've also got a couple of 6x47 Lapuas, and the newest one (built around a BAT 3L w/30" .236" bore Krieger 7.5-twist #15 std. Palma in a Robertson H&H prone stock) is a hammer with DTAC 115gr. bullets. While I'm not getting much more velocity out of this rifle than I can get with 115s & N550 in a Dasher, I can easily get over 3000fps with 115s out of the other 6x47, which has a .237" bore Bartlein 8-twist bbl. And there's no fireforming to do - just neck 6.5x47 cases down in a Forster/Bonanza FL die, load, & shoot.

The biggest differences I've seen between the two cartridges is that the 6x47 has a tad more recoil (even in rifles of equal weight, pushing the same bullets at nearly identical velocities), and the extra powder the 6x47 burns puts a little more carbon in the throat a little faster than the Dasher does. Either way you go, you've got good Lapua brass to work with.
 
Alan

Being that Riverbend is a 600yd. range you might consider a plain Jane 6MM BR. The Dasher would be better if you were going to stretch it out to 1000 yds. But I'm not sure it's worth the effort for just 600 yds. For your first foray into this type of shooting keep everything as simple as possible so you can concentrate on your shooting and have some fun.

Dave
 
Dave Tooley said:
Alan

Being that Riverbend is a 600yd. range you might consider a plain Jane 6MM BR. The Dasher would be better if you were going to stretch it out to 1000 yds. But I'm not sure it's worth the effort for just 600 yds. For your first foray into this type of shooting keep everything as simple as possible so you can concentrate on your shooting and have some fun.

Dave
Click to expand...

Dave,

Good advice. Problem is, I already have a 6BR that shoots very well, though I haven't yet shot it out to 600 yds. The other problem :), I have this donor action, a Banser Varminter stock, Rifle Basix trigger, new optics in the box, and the itch for a new rifle. I figure if I do participate in longer than 600 shoots, I want something of a different flavor built a little heavier. (The 6BR has a #3 Douglas premium tube).

Alan.
 
The smaller 6s have longer barrel life, but the 6 x 47 seems to have nice balance of everything. Accurate, good barrel life and easy to make. Lapua brass and 4350 will easily get 107MK over 3000 fps. with excelent accuracy and good barrel life.Rad
 
Look at the 6XC. I'm beginning to think that size case needs a large primer. Too much inconsistancy with accuracy with the 6X6.5-47. A lot of barrels have been rechambered to Dasher or 6BR's and then started shooting.

Dave
 
You already have a 6mmBR why not a 6mmBRX

The no neck turn 6mmBRX uses the same 6mmBR dies and 6mmBR Brass. It is slightly better at 600 yards and will shoot to 1000. Components and barrel life are real good too. Inherently accurate, lower cost in shooting.
Rustystud
 
Dave,
In reply to your post about problems with the 6x47's small primer case - I do see larger ES & SD numbers on cool/cold days with my 6x47s vs. what I'm used to seeing with Dashers. I've got no-turn necks on my 6x47 & Dasher reamers - .273" on the x47, and .274" on the Dasher. There is the possibility that necking down 6.5x47 cases exacerbates any lack of neck uniformity and contributes to larger ES, but since I'm seeing excellent concentricity in fired & sized cases (using Forster BR FL die), I'm discounting that theory.

Whatever's going on, I'm getting excellent accuracy out of a 30" Krieger 7.5-twist chambered for 6x47L on a BAT 3L, while my 1st 6x47 is kinda mediocre in the accuracy dept. I've experimented with CCI BR4 & 450, R 7-1/2, F205M, & Wolf LRM primers, and for the most part, the 7-1/2 has been the most consistent, so I'm sticking with it for now. There's so little difference between the case shape & capacity of the XC & X47 that I think some meaningful experimenting to see the difference in large vs. small primers could be done.
 
Thanks for all the input. I talked with Mickey this evening & he will order a 6mm barrel on Monday for me. I am going with a 6mm Dasher as he has the reamer. I have a Zeiss 6.5X20X50 Conquest NIB and Burris Signature rings. I know I can get to 600 without a problem, will 1000 need a canted (10 MOA?) base?
 
You are going to have to come up about 26-28 minutes from a 100 yard zero for 1,000 yards. Since you are using equipment we don't much see on 1K BR rifles, I dunno if your scope has that in it or not. Most of us use a 20-minute tapered base, or the equivalent in rings such as the Burris Z rings with offset inserts. The Weaver base/Burris rings combination is a bit heavy but works fine.
 
6mmDasher here, 12-42 BR Nightforce CH1. 20MOA base was too much, a 15MOA base would zero me at 100, not that it matters since we never shoot at 100 so I left the 20MOA base on. My reamer print is in one of my posts if your curious. Compressing Varget with 108 Bergers currently, I have 1000 105 Lapuas I will try out soon.

I hydraulically formed my cases. Stepping up the necks to make a false shoulder induced too much runout for my liking, perhaps my method was the problem I dunno, and jamming the bullet into the lands enough that closing the bolt reseated the bullet absolutley does not stop the firing pin from driving the brass forwards. The only way I could stop case stretch was to hydraulically form them.
 
alank said:
Thanks for all the input. I talked with Mickey this evening & he will order a 6mm barrel on Monday for me. I am going with a 6mm Dasher as he has the reamer. I have a Zeiss 6.5X20X50 Conquest NIB and Burris Signature rings. I know I can get to 600 without a problem, will 1000 need a canted (10 MOA?) base?
Click to expand...
Alan, I talked with Tim G. this evening and he thinks the 6x47 Lapua might be the ticket. It will give better velocities without hammering the cases too much. Anybody else on here have any input on this cartridge? I've built several 1,000 yard rifles but have never shot the game and have no experience with the 6x47 Lapua. What do you guys think?

Tim also said that 1-8 twist is plenty. The 108 Bergers are easier to keep in tune than the VLD's according to Tim.

PS: I just read Dave Tooley's comments. Dave knows his stuff and I would give his comments a lot of weight. The Dasher just may the best of all worlds that we have right now.
 
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Hi Mickey,

There are a lot of things going on in this thread that worry me. First off, the man is going to shoot highpower, not benchrest. Secondly, he has severely limited what calibers and chamberings he'll consider, then asked for advice. Same with components (action, barrel, etc.).

And with all due respect to Tim, what he says doesn't make sense with my (benchrest) experience. Most of us feel that "hammering" the brass -- getting the rise time of the pressure curve consistent -- is important.

Secondly, the 6/6.5x47 Lapua is new. From reports, there are a couple notable shooters who are doing very well with it, and DO NOT drill the flash holes. Then there are a couple of notable shooters who are doing well with it, but ONLY IF they drill out the flash holes. Then there is Joel Kendrick, who has shot Dave Tooley's version of the 6x47 (shortened, necked down .308 case) for a number of years, successfully -- successful meaning winning at least one National Championship. Last time I asked, Joel had gone back to forming his cases from .308s; they shot better (albeit with much more work) than the Lapua case.

Then there is the whole business of a rifle with two purposes: 600 and 1,000 yards, in F-class. If you add benchrest, that would be 4 different purposes. Now in benchrest, if you look at results, the 6mm wins consistently at 600 yards. The 6mm wins occasionally and (sometimes spectacularly) at 1,000 yards, but the 7mms and esp. the .30s are far more consistent winners. For all I know, F-class may be different.

My advice to the original poster would remain, if it is a competition rifle, shoot something easy and with which you already have some experience -- such as the 6mm BR -- until you have enough experience to warrant all the decision-making. I believe that was Dave Tooley's advice as well.

Edit: Or borrow experience, from someone like Jim Hardy, who has shot long-range benchrest, F-class, and straight long-range highpower, and lives nearby. I'm sure there are oters, I just happen to know Jim.
 
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Hey, Charles,
That's the very reason I steered Alan to this site in the beginnning. Y'all have the experience and knowledge in this field and I don't. I don't know if Alan will enter formal competition very much in the beginning or not.

I am a big fan of the 6mmBR as it stands but he already has a 6mmBR and just wanted somethig different. I have a Dasher reamer and many have had success with it so that's how and why we chose it. I don't think Alan would be all that interested in forming brass from another case at this point but I could be wrong.
 
I have a 6 - 6.5x47 Reamer and I built a rifle in this chambering and sold it. A friend has a rifle in this chambering and it is very accurate at 1000 yds. I gave my friends load information to the person that bought my rifle and the report I got was it worked very well in that rifle. The load was using 108 Bergers, CCI 450 primers and H4350 powder. If you want a little more velocity than you can get with the BR variants this is one of the better choices IMO. It is hard to beat the accuracy of the BR's, Dashers, etc.
 
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