Bolt face alterations?

F

feffer

Member
I'm considering re-purposing a Hall Std LV (group) rifle to a score gun. It has a 6ppc bolt face, a standard Hall extractor (I think it is a Sako type) and no ejector. I will probably re-barrel to 30 BR. What must be done? The bolt face must be opened, for sure, but does the extractor need to be altered as well? Once I do this, is the original PPC chambered barrel now useless? Or will the 6PPC cases still function with the altered bolt? If so, does the extra "slop" from the larger bolt face opening affect anything, or not?

I haven't decided whether to add an ejector or not...might not be that useful on a VFS gun, but if I did, is that practical?
 
Feffer please read my reply on Centerfire.

feffer said:
I'm considering re-purposing a Hall Std LV (group) rifle to a score gun. It has a 6ppc bolt face, a standard Hall extractor (I think it is a Sako type) and no ejector. I will probably re-barrel to 30 BR. What must be done? The bolt face must be opened, for sure, but does the extractor need to be altered as well? Once I do this, is the original PPC chambered barrel now useless? Or will the 6PPC cases still function with the altered bolt? If so, does the extra "slop" from the larger bolt face opening affect anything, or not?

I haven't decided whether to add an ejector or not...might not be that useful on a VFS gun, but if I did, is that practical?
Click to expand...


As to ejectors, unless you are dealing w/ a R/R Hall, you are talking about a HUGE amount of work to turn it into an ejector gun. And as Schmidt stated, an ejector in the score game is gilding the lily. I own a couple of ejector 6PPC's and could easily opt to convert one for VFS. I am staying w/ my R/L Hall, no eject.
 
I see the logic of what Jackie said in the other thread, and was thinking NO ejector, but I was curious about the option. I have 3 guns left from my earlier (brief) group shooting days. I don't think I'll ever get into that competition again...but I'm not quite ruling it out so I don't want to make a one way conversion w/o thinking it through. My two LV rifles: a Hall Std R/R and a Hall M R/L. The HV is a Stolle R/L.

OK, I see from your reply on Centerfire that adding an ejector is not practical and not cheap. So I'm done with that idea. Still mulling though whether to open a bolt face and re-barrel to a 30 BR or keep the PPC bolt face and chamber for a 30 PPC or similar .440 case. I don't think I want to mess with turning down BR rims to fit the PPC size though.
 
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feffer....I have opened the bolt face on 2 Hall actions...Hall does not make a Sako style extractor...they use a sliding plate extractor...it requires careful modification to make it work..if you could buy a BR extractor to replace the PPC extractor it would be an easy conversion...I had Greg Tannel ad an ejector to mine for $80..a very fair price for the work...I used mine for score shooting...when score shooting in West Texas the conditions an ejector was necessary to speed up reloading to shoot when the condition was holding (maybe 30 seconds ;) )


Eddie in Texas
 
I've seen some people say that they don't feel an ejector is as critical for score as group shooting, but as usual...I don't agree. I think everything you can do to speed up the process of getting your record shots downrange is a benefit..WHEN YOU NEED TO. More importantly IMHO, is to know WHEN to run and when to pick your way through conditions. For running, I most certainly like my drop port, but any reliable ejector model should do just as well.

Also, it's been mentioned that the Grendel based cases were of no advantage over the x39 brass. Again, I respectfully disagree. Perhaps not, when using H or IMR 4198, but IME, those two choices can be made to shoot, but are slightly too slow for the case and the light 30 caliber bullets, and near if not impossible to get too much pressure from. Another thing is that there is confusion...still, about what a 30 Major aka 30 Grendel is. It's not a 30 PPC. it's close, but a different animal as the best way to describe what it is, is a .070" long ppc, that happens to have top quality, small primer, small flash hole brass readily available that only needs necking up to be ready...and depending on you ND, neck turning. IMHO, the small flash holes are of value as are the small primers...even if not from the standpoint of being more accurate, they still leave a case head that is stronger than the same with a large primer. Therefore, at higher pressures that can be attained with what I consider to be much better choices than either of the 4198s in this case, is in itself, of benefit. The above is my experience and is in no way meant to be disrespectful of any of my friends or their views. We simply can't all agree on everything, all the time. That would be boring. :) There's not much I haven't done with the Grendel based 30 cal. I've used x39 brass and without nearly the life as with Lapua or Alexander Arms brass...which was made by Lapua. As for accuracy, the brass life was bad enough that I didn't venture into serious testing. If it ain't broke...--Mike Ezell
 
mwezell said:
...Also, it's been mentioned that the Grendel based cases were of no advantage over the x39 brass. Again, I respectfully disagree. Perhaps not, when using H or IMR 4198, but IME, those two choices can be made to shoot, but are slightly too slow for the case and the light 30 caliber bullets, and near if not impossible to get too much pressure from. Another thing is that there is confusion...still, about what a 30 Major aka 30 Grendel is. It's not a 30 PPC. it's close, but a different animal as the best way to describe what it is, is a .070" long ppc, that happens to have top quality, small primer, small flash hole brass readily available that only needs necking up to be ready...and depending on you ND, neck turning. IMHO, the small flash holes are of value as are the small primers...even if not from the standpoint of being more accurate, they still leave a case head that is stronger than the same with a large primer. Therefore, at higher pressures that can be attained with what I consider to be much better choices than either of the 4198s in this case, is in itself, of benefit. The above is my experience and is in no way meant to be disrespectful of any of my friends or their views. We simply can't all agree on everything, all the time. That would be boring. :) There's not much I haven't done with the Grendel based 30 cal. I've used x39 brass and without nearly the life as with Lapua or Alexander Arms brass...which was made by Lapua. As for accuracy, the brass life was bad enough that I didn't venture into serious testing. If it ain't broke...--Mike Ezell
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It would certainly be simpler for me to leave the PPC bolt face as is. The 30 Major (made from Lapua Grendel brass) seems like an interesting option. Read the piece on Accurate.Shooter about it. Nice. I'd like to get some more specifics though. Are there different reamer versions (like with the BR and PPC), if so, which do you use/recommend? What twist rate and bullet do you like? Also you mentioned different powder (not H-4198), which one...LT30?
 
feffer said:
It would certainly be simpler for me to leave the PPC bolt face as is. The 30 Major (made from Lapua Grendel brass) seems like an interesting option. Read the piece on Accurate.Shooter about it. Nice. I'd like to get some more specifics though. Are there different reamer versions (like with the BR and PPC), if so, which do you use/recommend? What twist rate and bullet do you like? Also you mentioned different powder (not H-4198), which one...LT30?
Click to expand...

As for reamer designs...I'm sure there are more than I'm aware of. I use a .330 neck reamer with a .010 freebore 1°-30 lead angle...pretty standard stuff. I've also use no turn reamers with as much as .050 freebore..not so much for BR purposes. I have found that .332 reamers have produced chambers where the neck has been consistently small enough to achieve full clean up with light neck turning, though..and that freebores between 0 and about .030 are good, but somewhat dependent upon bullet choice and ogive. I shoot 7-3/4 and 8 ogive bullets mostly and between 110 and 125 grains, but started with 7's, which work fine, particularly with faster powders. The difference is in how far into the neck the bullet winds up...using valuable powder space, especially with powders in the range of h4198. My best success has been with a now almost unobtainable viht N120 powder. It's wonderful stuff for which the only complaint is the current availability. IME, it's everything you could ask for from a powder, in this size case. So, if you can find any, buy with confidence...It's magic pixie dust.

Aside from it, there are several other powder choice...H4198 being one of them..as is RL7, Norma 200, AA5744, AA1680 IMR4227(careful.. this one is FAST), and lt-32. I have been sitting on a few pounds of lt30 without time to test it, but it should be very near perfect. I'd certainly give it a try. ASAP, I'll report my findings with it.

The cartridge simply makes sense, particularly for a dedicated ppc bolt face. Great brass, no difficult forming or fireforming...really, no downsides other than a few bucks higher per 100 than 220 R brass, and it lasts and lasts with proper loading and sizing.

I've been shooting it for about 8 years now, IIRC...with absolutely never feeling like it gives up anything to the BR case of substance. Granted, that was with N120 as a given for several of those years. That combination was really a good one. LT30 should, at least in theory, be as good. Only testing will tell for sure. It's a tad slower than n120 but is dense enough to get enough in the case to shoot. As I mentioned, LT32 will shoot, but with a charge that is downright hard to fit into the case. LT30 is faster than lt32 but of the same density.--Mike
 
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