Benchrest rifle Questions.... trigger at 3 onces..... Gee! hair trigger.........

H

herbeapuce

New member
Hi there.

I just bought a really nice second hand custom rifle in 6mm PPC. Remington 700 action with a custom st fluted barrel, single shot (no mag) .

I'm a handloader and I own many rifles, but none are serious bench rifles and I have never competed. I just shoot for fun, usually at 100 yards..

I have a few questions for the big boys here if you don't mind....

-first of all, I checked the trigger pull . it is ridiculously lite. I mean my gauge reads 3 to 3.5 once.... but it feels scary lite. you just touch the side of the trigger and bang it goes...... my question: is this what most benchrest shooters prefer ?
How heavy can I go on the trigger without loosing accuracy iyo ? .( I would prefer a bit heavier just for safety alone...)

-the bolt has no ejector.... Again is this a common thing?
I personally don't mind.... it's quite easy to get the empty case and remove it by hand

I got the rifle from a person knowing a person being very sick and selling his guns. So I have no history with the gun. I don't think it was shoot a lot , as it's in excellent condition. it game with 50 loaded rounds and 2 boxes of Bergers 68 match bullets

I shot the gun today and I did .75 for a 10 shot string. or .50 if I exclude the one flyer.
the average speed was 3123fps, SD at 15.88 and ES at 44. Of course I didn't make the rounds, someone else did. so I don't know what powder they were using.
Would you have an educated guess as far as what powder they were using ? don't worry I will double and triple check.....

I can tell the case neck were turned and not all the way to the shoulder,

what is the next step to insure I will make quality reloads for my gun ?
I guess I will have to cast the chamber, right? as I read they change a lot in diameter in the 6mm PPC.....
I will check the rifling also.

now I do not want to compete with the gun and I will need to buy dies pretty soon..... without going to crazy with the budget, what make/model should I get. my press is a Forster Co-ax and I usually use Lee dies, very often I just use the neck sizing die

if you want to give me some advice , please I would be very happy to read them.

Regards
Stef, Montreal.
 
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Welcome to the wonderment of accurate rifles.

Closely measure one of the loaded cases if you did not shoot them all. Especially loaded neck diameter, OAL, amount of powder. Powder weight will probably be in the 28.5 - 29.5 grain range.

Have fun!
.
 
Actually the trigger is a little heavy. 1.5-2oz is more common.
No ejector is common.
Measure one of the loaded rounds with a micrometer and add .002. This will give you the probably neck size of the chamber. If you have 0 loaded rounds you probably won't need to make cases for a while and by then you will know a lot more about this arcane game. Powder is likely N 133 or LT 32. Good load of LT 32 would be 28.0-28.5 with those bullets. Best source of sizing die would be Harrell's Precision. Look them up and send them 3 fired cases. But, even though the seller is sick he should have dies that you can buy. You will want a Wilson seater die and an arbor press for seating.
Spend some time here and ask questions.
Good luck.

Rick
 
The neck size of the chamber should be printed or engraved on the barrel....that's about all you need to know at this point. Don't shoot anything where the neck of the loaded round measures greater than the chamber.

You'll get used to that trigger....let it alone.
 
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You might want to pick up a copy of Tony Boyer's "The book of rifle accuracy". A wealth of information in there about the PPC.
 
Hi again.

written on the barrel:
6mmPPC
#6-05 and NCK 262.

Does that mean I can safely shoot a round with a neck of .262 and under?

And the number 0724 is engraved on the bolt … Do you know what that means?

I took some measures….

Upon closer inspection, the neck seems to be turned for 2 different thickness:
The last section of the neck is thinner that the section closer to the shoulder.
The section near the mouth is on average 0.2607 thick, this section is 0.168 long (hard to measure with precision….)
The one closer to the shoulder is 0.2628 thick (that is .0021 thicker) and is 0.077 long.


I should mention that today at the range, the bolt was pretty stiff to close on the rounds. I had no problems feeding back and forth a round and the bullet would not get stocked in the lands, plus no marks on the bullets, so it makes me think it's the neck thickness , or the shoulder is a bit long..
To have a tight bolt, is this normal and encouraged?

the reloads I got, have 27.55g of a quite small extruded powder; the powder color is kind of gray/silver…I have seen darker powder. Any Ideas now? (3123fps and 68 Berger)


I will consider Harrell's Precision for the dies…. But being in Canada I don’t think I can send fired rounds to USA…..

Finally, I suspect my trigger being lighter that 3 oz and my gauge not good enough to read it correctly ….is it so lite.

All right thank you guys.

Don’t be shy to comment…. I’m looking forward reading your comments.
Regards
Stef,
 
The number on the bolt is probably the last four of the receiver serial number. We stamp ours at the base of the bolt handle.
 
herbeapuce said:
Hi again.

written on the barrel:
6mmPPC
#6-05 and NCK 262.

Does that mean I can safely shoot a round with a neck of .262 and under?

And the number 0724 is engraved on the bolt … Do you know what that means?

I took some measures….

Upon closer inspection, the neck seems to be turned for 2 different thickness:
The last section of the neck is thinner that the section closer to the shoulder.
The section near the mouth is on average 0.2607 thick, this section is 0.168 long (hard to measure with precision….)
The one closer to the shoulder is 0.2628 thick (that is .0021 thicker) and is 0.077 long.


I should mention that today at the range, the bolt was pretty stiff to close on the rounds. I had no problems feeding back and forth a round and the bullet would not get stocked in the lands, plus no marks on the bullets, so it makes me think it's the neck thickness , or the shoulder is a bit long..
To have a tight bolt, is this normal and encouraged?

the reloads I got, have 27.55g of a quite small extruded powder; the powder color is kind of gray/silver…I have seen darker powder. Any Ideas now? (3123fps and 68 Berger)


I will consider Harrell's Precision for the dies…. But being in Canada I don’t think I can send fired rounds to USA…..

Finally, I suspect my trigger being lighter that 3 oz and my gauge not good enough to read it correctly ….is it so lite.

All right thank you guys.

Don’t be shy to comment…. I’m looking forward reading your comments.
Regards
Stef,
Click to expand...

You probably shouldn't shoot anything over .260, although it sounds like your are very close to .261. I won't speculate on tight bolt closure as it could be several things including the inconsistent neck or needing the shoulder bumped back a .001 or so. But then I guess that is speculation isn't it. Powder is possibly one of those mentioned above. I would have though you could mail fired, unprimed brass, but maybe not. Contact Harrell's, they will know.

Rick
 
Yes, that's what the .262 marking means. Measure the loaded round where the bottom of the bullet is and if you don't have a bit less than .262 don't shoot it. Measure the loaded round as it's pretty easy to make a mathematical error when adding such numbers. Also, those cases are likely approaching end of life so get yourself a neck turning tool, some new cases, and get to work. End of life can be a single firing if you get a little carried away with the powder charge. If your loaded round measures less than .262 at the base of the bullet, and the cases load tightly, they are either too long or need additional sizing. If they are too long you'll need a neck trimmer to continue (to continue). You'll need one anyway so bite that bullet as well.

Make this easy, or make it hard...your choice. You can't make it inexpensive and shoot well enough to win anywhere...your choice as well. All considered...pretty much your choice.
 
Welcome and.......

Do you have any benchrest ranges and shooters near where you live? Most of them are more than willing to help you to become more familiar with what you have actually got there. WD
 
Wilbur said:
Yes, that's what the .262 marking means. Measure the loaded round where the bottom of the bullet is and if you don't have a bit less than .262 don't shoot it.
Click to expand...

And measure with a micrometer and NOT a dial caliper.

Dial calipers are generally +/- 0.001.
And you want to know there is SOME clearance between the case and the chamber wall.

With careful loading you can get by with 0.0020 (0.0010 all around) safely.
It just MUST NOT get to ZERO.
 
Folks shot zero clearance for a while...I tried it as well just to see if it was any better. Zero clearance did not shoot better and it was difficult to maintain properly so I quit doing it. ANYTHING more difficult, that doesn't shoot smaller groups, is not a good thing.
 
Hi again.

thank you all for your help and sorry for the late respond

between working and hunting..... I will take the time to digest all the great info here..

@ rkittine: Bob, I'm in Montreal, QC, Canada.

@ brickeyee: yes I use a good Starrett 0.0001 micrometer

@ WyleWD: at this time I don't know of a dedicated benchrest shooting club near Montreal.... unfortunately I live in the province of Quebec. Over here there are few shooting ranges. the great majorities are under 200 yards. I know of one club using the army facilities but this club rarely accepts new members and it's by invitation only...

@ wilbur. Yes I agree with the case trimmer being indispensable. I check or cut my case everytime I reload them ( I already have a Forster original trimmer )

But I haven't had the chance to shoot the rifle more....
I will keep you posted.


Best regards
stef
 
alinwa said:
Why not?
Click to expand...

If it goes to zero it means there is very likely some case in the lot that is oversize.

That round is very likely to have a huge pressure increase.

No matter how careful you are sizing metal things always carries some tolerance.

And it always can go either way.
 
brickeyee said:
If it goes to zero it means there is very likely some case in the lot that is oversize.

That round is very likely to have a huge pressure increase.

No matter how careful you are sizing metal things always carries some tolerance.

And it always can go either way.
Click to expand...

Have you ever done it?

I think that's info from a book...... cuz I shoot zero tolerance, a LOT.

I tested this a lot back when I used loading manuals. Cuz back then I believed in "experts." And "expert advice". And I lived in fear....

And I wanted A S W E R S not knee-jerk reactions and fear-driven opinions.

I'm a Safety Geek.... Olde Schoole like wear the eyes and ears to mow the lawn Safety Geek.

I spent boatloads of money lissening to experts only to find that most of them just have opinions...I ask "WHY?" and they don't know, so, "just because..."

Now I just, don't. Lissen much that is to folks who don't know the "why" of stuff. I don't believe ANYBODY, I test stuff. And I find out WHY.

WHY? and or HOW? could a zero tolerance fit cause a pressure spike I asked??? My second question I ever asked on this board back in '93 or so was "Do Bullets Obturate In The Neck?" And it blew to freaking ROOF off the joint... so a few people called/texted/PM'd me and said it like it really was/is.

We get the same question with guys living in fear of "touching the lands and getting a huge pressure spike!!" Because the reloading manuals warn against it in big bold print :) But in reality many loads actually DROP in pressure when you hit the lands.....test it.

So, in reality, as long as a round chambers easily there will be no pressure spike. And that's a fine way to find any fatties, just go by feel, don't force 'em...... if they don't go in, DON'T FORCE 'EM!

Which is true of almost everything....

reloading oriented.

Except fireforming.
 
Zero clearance

The Op said he was new in pretty much every respect. You are an old hand, probably good at keeping everything good and clean, based on that alone a couple thou of clearance is probably a good idea, no ?
 
tim said:
The Op said he was new in pretty much every respect. You are an old hand, probably good at keeping everything good and clean, based on that alone a couple thou of clearance is probably a good idea, no ?
Click to expand...


Well...... no :)

I'm not being facetious here. I've known all my adult life that shooting and especially reloading could be "dangerous." I've heard all the horror stories, personally know dozens of people who've been shot (6 killed) accidentally, two people dead from reloading mishaps and dozens injured.

ALL from poor decisions, "accidents" and in some cases utter carelessness but not one of them was involved while engaging in safe practice.

I'm a safe person.

I've raised VERY safe children.

And the OP sounds as if he's concerned with safety.

I also own a construction company and live in an environment where safety is lived and breathed or people die.

I've a VERY safe working environment, 35yrs of records shows this, my ratings are A++

I have to UNDERSTAND safety, the assessment of and implementation of.... I MUST know WHY and HOW a thing is unsafe.

In this endeavor I've tested things. Generally "to the point of failure"...... this, in the case of something like "action strength" quite simply means that you keep adding boom until the thing blows to pieces.

Or doesn't.

I'm stating that as long as you're chambering your rounds with normal resistance you simply CANNOT be unexpectedly doing something dangerous. Dirty, Clean, Old, New....... none of it matters. It's called CLEARANCE for a reason. Clear down to zero, it's still clearance.

And that if you're doing something silly, like grease or oil in chamber, using the wrong powder, guessing at charge weights/bullet weights, switching ANY component (primer/bullet/case etc) then clearance or no clearance makes no difference.

And I guess if you're a slam-and-jam bangity-banger and you're cycling the bolt like a piston pump and can't FEEL the resistance then maybe you'd best just take up something safer, like pillow-fighting or finger painting because sooner or later a boulder's gonna' find it's way into your hedgerow and smush the hedgehog right in the bustle....

Tell me of a test or explain a mechanism and I'll recant quicker than a politician

which I AIN'T
 
There is one factor here that needs to be brought up. Those of us who post are not the only readers here. I have had a lot of experience teaching people various things, and I can guarantee you that what someone who has a different amount of experience hears may be quite different from what you may have actually said. For that reason I try to avoid talking about things that are at all marginal if some detail is not handled correctly. If you want to learn more about this, after explaining how something is done to someone who has not done it before, ask him to repeat the procedure that he has assured you he understands. You may be surprised by what he says.
 
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