Bedding revisited

C

chino69

Guest
I would like to bounce some ideas around to see what some of you think. We all know that a stress free bedding situation is what we all shoot for when bedding an action. I just bedded a Borden SS Alpine action with recoil lug superglued to action in a Bell & Carlson tactical stock. Using bedding screws to take the place of guard screws, I snugged the action into the stock. Using a clamp with just very mild pressure I let it set up and cure. There was no barrel attached to the action. How much more stress free can you get?
 
chino69 said:
I would like to bounce some ideas around to see what some of you think. We all know that a stress free bedding situation is what we all shoot for when bedding an action. I just bedded a Borden SS Alpine action with recoil lug superglued to action in a Bell & Carlson tactical stock. Using bedding screws to take the place of guard screws, I snugged the action into the stock. Using a clamp with just very mild pressure I let it set up and cure. There was no barrel attached to the action. How much more stress free can you get?
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Personally I would not recommend the use of superglue, or any type of adhesive for that matter, in attempting to achieve proper bedding.

A properly bedded action is the result of a good fit between the the action and stock, and NOT by any attempt to "artificially" bind the two together as tight as possible by any means possible. If when slowly alternately tightening the tang and lug screws, and both come to a snug "stop" when being tightened, chances are good the bedding will be acceptable.

However, if one or both screws slowly becomes more and more difficult to tighten, this would indicate a stress producing "bind" regardless of how much torque is used, with the result being the action not returning to it's original "position" between shots.

In short, when trying to achieve proper bedding, think "fit" as opposed to forced binding.

Ford42
 
I had a couple of post- 64 Winchester mdl 70's. It looked like they used a hot melt glue gun from Jo-Ann fabrics to "bed" their recoil lugs ?
Joel
p.s. Super glue only works in very thin applications,plus its too hard and brittle.I think it's destined to fail as a rifle action glue in adhesive. Why not just use Acraglass gel without any release agent? Unless of course, you want to take the action out of the stock at some point ? But then, get it hot enough and it will let go.Now hose clamps,there's an idea.Once you get past the cosmetic aspect of things,that should work pretty good and you can always tighten' 'em up or take 'em off depending on the desired accuracy effect.
 
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"snugged it with bedding screws", "...."clamp with very mild pressure".

What makes you think you didn't stress it. In my opinion, the only stress free bedding job is where no pressure at all is applied, other than the weight of the action........jackie
 
I'm with Jackie... gravity only is the best stress free method...
 
Ya you dont even use c clamps or any other clamping devise when bedding a action...................................... Lee
 
Sounds like a glue-in, of sorts. No stress from barrel but clamps...who knows? Let's see how it shoots and then decide.

John M. Carper
 
Could bedding a stock with just the receiver be different than bedding one with the barrel screwed in (aside from how you would bed them)?
 
katokoch said:
Could bedding a stock with just the receiver be different than bedding one with the barrel screwed in (aside from how you would bed them)?
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The same question I had about this method. Torquing the barrel into the action will shorten the action axially and expand its diameter. Probably not much, but the effect is there. Therefore, if the bedded action is stress free, it will not be so when the barrel is installed. Another advantage of bedding with the barrel in place is that you can use the greater length to better align the barreled action with the stock.

Cheers,
Keith
 
mks said:
Therefore, if the bedded action is stress free, it will not be so when the barrel is installed.
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This is exactly what I'm thinking. The only way to bed a barreled action and get a perfect fit is to bed it as a barreled action.
 
Perhaps I did not explain this accurately enough. Let me try to add some clarity. I merely used Super Glue to temporarily secure the recoil lug to the face of the action during the bedding process. The barrels I have are threaded to fit trued Remington actions and would not thread into the Borden action. My hunch is the trued Rem. actions were opened a bit to clean the factory threads up. At any rate, I only used the Super glue to fix the recoil lug; mimicking the barrel holding it flush against the receiver face. I used bedding screws with masking tape to center them in the guard screw holes and then bedded the receiver into the stock. I pressed the receiver into place and just lightly clamped front and rear to ensure it was down equally. The clamp did not remain during the curing process and the receiver remained in place until properly cured. Does this clear things up a bit and does it sound acceptable?

My next question is whether bedding several inches of the barrel is necessary as I've seen it done both ways?
 
I put a layer of news paper on my drill press table, put a short block of wood over the action.Pull the quill down on the wood block to keep it from falling on the floor.
 
mks said:
The same question I had about this method. Torquing the barrel into the action will shorten the action axially and expand its diameter. Probably not much, but the effect is there. Therefore, if the bedded action is stress free, it will not be so when the barrel is installed. Another advantage of bedding with the barrel in place is that you can use the greater length to better align the barreled action with the stock.

Cheers,
Keith
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Keith,
I understand what you are saying but would this change be even measurable?
 
chino69 said:
Keith,
I understand what you are saying but would this change be even measurable?
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I did a quick calculation for a 1.35" diameter steel receiver with barrel thread diameter of 1.062" torqued to 100 ftlb, which gives an axial force of about 4000 lb. For an inch of tenon length, the compression is about 0.00024." Measurable? Yes. Significant? I don't know, but I think I will do my glue-ins with the barreled action.

Cheers,
Keith
 
mks said:
I did a quick calculation for a 1.35" diameter steel receiver with barrel thread diameter of 1.062" torqued to 100 ftlb, which gives an axial force of about 4000 lb. For an inch of tenon length, the compression is about 0.00024." Measurable? Yes. Significant? I don't know, but I think I will do my glue-ins with the barreled action.

Cheers,
Keith
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Keith,
Interesting; thanks for the info. How about the cantilevered effect of the barrel screwed into the action while the bedding cures? There has to be some degree of flex in the action from the effect of a heavy barrel 26 to 28 inches long screwed into the action. This was my reason for bedding the action without the barrel.
 
chino69 said:
Keith,
Interesting; thanks for the info. How about the cantilevered effect of the barrel screwed into the action while the bedding cures? There has to be some degree of flex in the action from the effect of a heavy barrel 26 to 28 inches long screwed into the action. This was my reason for bedding the action without the barrel.
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Let's say the barrel weighs 10 lb and its moment arm is 14 inches resulting in a moment on the action of 140 in lb. That moment must be balanced by an equal moment over the diameter of the action. The compression force on the bottom of the action would be 140 in lb / 1.35 in = 104 lb, over 10x smaller than the force imparted by torquing the barrel in. If during glue-up you support the barrel in the barrel channel with alignment shims, then this small stress goes away.

Cheers,
Keith
 
mks said:
Let's say the barrel weighs 10 lb and its moment arm is 14 inches resulting in a moment on the action of 140 in lb. That moment must be balanced by an equal moment over the diameter of the action. The compression force on the bottom of the action would be 140 in lb / 1.35 in = 104 lb, over 10x smaller than the force imparted by torquing the barrel in. If during glue-up you support the barrel in the barrel channel with alignment shims, then this small stress goes away.

Cheers,
Keith
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Keith,
Again, thank you for the information. Humor me with the following logic and give me your thoughts. Why couldn't one make shims out of Acra Glass for different barrel diameters as this is where I'm heading with this whole process? I shoot varmints and informal groundhog matches as well as bench just for my own satisfaction. Most of my rifles are switch barrel set ups with two or three barrels for each in various calibers.

Bed the action by itself, as I described above. Screw in a Heavy Varmint contour barrel and provide shims to support the barrel in the stock channel, alleviating the moment arm on the action. Make a removable shim under the chamber area, in front of the recoil lug, to provide a degree of support. The removable shim would be made out of bedding material and would be barrel specific., i.e. a thicker shim for the LV barrels and a thinner one for the HV barrels. I've read various opinions and seen barrels with no bedding support in front of the recoil lug as well as barrels supported by bedding in front of the recoil. With this method, I can have the best of both worlds; proving to myself that bedding in front of the recoil lug is beneficial or not required at all. Part of this whole shooting hobby, for me, is to prove theories in the field. Some well known gunsmiths bed the first couple inches of barrel and some do not. Is there a right way, a wrong way or is it just an individual matter of preference?
 
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chino69 said:
We all know that a stress free bedding situation is what we all shoot for when bedding an action.
Click to expand...

I'm not so sure this is true. Seems like what you want is an action that doesn't move relative to the stock when the gun goes off. Traditional action screws aren't very good at that, which is why you see glue-ins and v blocks as alternatives. In any case, food for thought.

(incidentally, I wrote an article about a similar topic a few weeks ago - you can find it here: Rifle Bedding and Action Screws )
 
Damon said:
I'm not so sure this is true. Seems like what you want is an action that doesn't move relative to the stock when the gun goes off. Traditional action screws aren't very good at that, which is why you see glue-ins and v blocks as alternatives. In any case, food for thought.

(incidentally, I wrote an article about a similar topic a few weeks ago - you can find it here: Rifle Bedding and Action Screws )
Click to expand...

Damon,
Thanks for the link to the article; very well written. I'm never done learning.
 
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