Barts Ultra 6mm 68's

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Bench 1

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I been trying to decide wheather to order some Barts ultra 68's. Everything I have researched on them have been very positive. I shoot a pac nor 1-14 in a 6mm BR. I have been shooting bergers but want to try a custom bullet is there anything else that would be recomended?
 
HeadHunters

Bench 1 said:
I been trying to decide wheather to order some Barts ultra 68's. Everything I have researched on them have been very positive. I shoot a pac nor 1-14 in a 6mm BR. I have been shooting bergers but want to try a custom bullet is there anything else that would be recomended?
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Try some of Barts 68gr HeadHunters.
 
Most all the custom bullets are quite good. How they shoot depends on what your barrel likes. A smart thing to do would be to get some low-number ogive (say about 6.5 tangent ogive) flatbase, like the Fowlers, a higher-number (say an 8-tangent ogive), and a boat-tail. The last two kinds are offered by Bart.

The Ultra's are an effort to get the best of both worlds in the ogive department -- and may - or may not -- do that in your barrel. Because of varying freebore & throats in different reamers, I'd still have some old-school 6.5 tangents on hand. I have an old-school reamer that, with most barrels, just loves the Fowlers.

Fowlers can be found at

http://fowlerbullets.com/specs

Bullets are cheaper than barrels. Recently, in a Precision Shooting interview, Lou Murdica mentioned he found it useful to have a number of different bullets "in stock." Good advice. Let the barrel decide.
 
That was actually the 2 I have been trying to decide between but couldnt find alot of info on the headhunters. what would make them a better choice just wondering. I just got into benchrest shooting about 4 months ago and I have alot to learn. I have been shooting and reloadig my entire life and thought I knew alot about it but come to find out I really didnt know much at all. Thanks
 
Can some one define the bullet ogive and how different ogives efects how the barrel will shoot them. I have heard alot about it but have not quite figured it out. Thanks
 
Bench 1 said:
Can some one define the bullet ogive and how different ogives efects how the barrel will shoot them. I have heard alot about it but have not quite figured it out. Thanks
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I can, but if I try writing that off the top of my head, I'll likely make a mistake, and surely forget to include several important things.

Best might be to do a Google search of "ogive benchrest.com" Google works better than internal searches in benchrest.com (which rests on a v-Bulletin program). Use what comes back to refine your searches, if necessary.

The definition, esp. with pictures, is not controversial. The interaction of throat and bullet is more speculative, so be sure to read a bunch of different posts/articles. That at least will give you an idea of the thinking. And that, IMHO, will take you back to having to actually test bullets in your barrel.

Good hunting, it is worth it. Be aware that long-rang and short range bullets are *thought* to need different properties. Also be aware that there are a lot of old wives tales on this subject. Passed-on bull$hit, in other words.

Here is a start. Notice that the Berger "hybids" use a double radius bullet too, but in their case, the lower-number ogive is toward the back, i.e. where the throat has most effect, with the higher number toward the point. Well, that's for a long-range bullet. Maybe. Might be just the ticket in point-blank, too, with different parameters.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2011/03/tangent-vs-secant-vs-hybrid-ogive-bryan-litz-explains/
 
The ogive is the part of the bullet between the little flat at the very front end, called the meplat, and where the sides of the bullet become parallel, or almost so. There are a couple of common ogive shapes, tangent, and secant. In the case of the former, which is more common in short range benchrest, the number that you have seen (6,7,8, etc.) describes the radius of the curve of the ogive in calibers. You may find this helpful. http://mathscinotes.wordpress.com/2011/01/11/ballistics-ogives-and-bullet-shapes-part-1/
As to why one bullet would shoot better in a given barrel than another, given equal jacket quality and manufacturing care, I think that it is fair to say that this has not been able to be reduced to some sort of formula, and is still within the realm of trial and error. Ask other shooters what they are shooting, and what their experiences have been. I have started several friends out with 68 gr. Bergers, and they have all been able to produce groups in the high teens. I think that having seen the radical effect the change to benchrest equipment makes in average accuracy, it is natural to try to try to further improve performance with different components. This may or may not work. There are many subtle variations in how rifles are tuned, rested, and shot that may have to be addressed to produce smaller groups. Personally, I am looking for a bullet that compensates for errors in reading the wind flags.
Boyd
 
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Well, I guess it's rude awakening time.

Just about any top notch custom bullet maker will have dies from a top notch manufacturer. The dies will produce a bullet that, dimensionally wise, is perfect.

But every bullet maker is at the mercy of the raw components that he has to purchase. Jackets seem to the big factor in how well a particular lot of bullets will shoot.

In years past, I have had bullets that I have won National Events with, only to have the next lot not worth wasting powder on. Why? Did the bullet maker suddenly forget how to make bullets?? No. Different raw components.

I dissagree in the saying that bullets are cheaper than barrels. Great bullets are more valuable to a Benchrest Shooter than Gold. In the end, this game is STILL about barrels, bullets, and tuning. You get those three right, and Benchrest becomes a much easier game. If any one of those three is not up to snuff, you are just another name somewhere in the middle of the score sheet.

Yes, it is a crap shoot. I probably have no less than 30,000 6mm bullets on hand, of those, over 1/2 are probably not worth wasting good primers and powder on.

As to your Question, the Barts 68 Ultra is a proven winner. Bart certainly is one of the premier bullet makers. keep in mind, he has the originol Watson Point Up Die as well, which by all accounts, produces one of the best 7 ogive straight shank bullets ever made.

In Mike Ratigans book, he speaks of 'Superman Bullets'. That is, you get lucky and score a great lot that just all seem to want to go on top of one another. He ain't lying.
 
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Boyd Allen said:
Personally, I am looking for a bullet that compensates for errors in reading the wind flags.
Boyd
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It's there, Boyd. Try some 300-grain Berger .338s, about 2,600 fps. Cuts rye threw that suckah. Now you can start looking for a bullet that doesn't hurt so much.
 
Charles E said:
Fowlers can be found at

http://fowlerbullets.com/specs
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Contact Fowler Bullets (Bill Scheider) Bill is a great guy I am sure he will sell you a fairly small quantity to see if your barrel likes them (it probably will) . You can speculate about specs. and ogives till the cows come home some barrels like some bullets and some barrels don't but a 66 Fowler is an excellent place to get started I shot them for years. If they shoot well in your rifle then you can look for something that shoots even better which you may well never find.

Dick
 
ReedG said:
Pac-Nor is a good barrel.
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Yup.... Me too... On the Button rifled side of barrel making.... Pac-Nor HAS delivered... Got a Grand with one 22ppc that I'm pretty proud of...

22BR / 6X47 / 20-222 chambered PacNor's............. SHOOTERS..!

cale
 
Bench 1 said:
Can some one define the bullet Ogive I have heard a lot about it but have not quite figured it out.
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A picture is worth a thousand words ... or more ... in this case.

Here's a good picture of where the Ogive is located on a bullet. As you can see from the picture, the Ogive is that part of the bullet where it first touches the lands: http://www.6mmbr.com/catalog/item/1433308/977259.htm and you get the added bonus from the picture of what Freebore is all about.

Thank our friends from Hornady for the picture.
 
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